Universal throws down the gauntlet in battle for Orlando

its so cool to see universal grow up from a mere diversion at best compared to disney, and watch them grow. i'm just glad I put all my betting chips in universal since the beginning. I always considered universal as good if not better then disney, and with epic opening. it will surely top disney. quality over quantity is clearly what the people want, and universal is making sure its what their gonna get.

I’ve been a huge fan and regular visitor to Universal since Islands of Adventure opened in 1999. My wife and I are passholders despite living in the UK. We tend to visit Orlando at least once or twice a year for between 7 - 14 days at a time, and over the past 15 or so years we have shifted from spending a few days at Universal at the end of a WDW trip to splitting our time equally, then to spending more time at Universal than at WDW, and finally to exclusively visiting UOR on the majority of our Orlando trips with only the very occasional visit to WDW property. In fact, until last month we hadn’t visited a WDW park since 2019, despite having visited Universal Orlando at least six times since then.

For us the shift towards Universal was caused by a variety of factors, the most prominent being how much easier and more relaxing it is to spend time there, coupled with what we perceive as a significant reduction in quality of the WDW product and an incredibly aggressive pricing strategy. We also hate being nickled and dimed, something that Disney has turned into an art form over the past decade or so.

I say all this because of the mention of DVC in the above article. My wife and I would have been ideal candidates for a DVC purchase, and 15 years ago I was certain we’d end up being owners one day. Now it wouldn’t make any sense at all - but it Universal were to offer a similar timeshare product we’d probably be first in line.

That constitutes "throwing down the gauntlet"?

Um ... okay.

First of all, the execs embrace the "fourth park" thing which means Comcast continues to push the claim that waterparks should be considered theme parks -- so I guess (by Comcast's standard) Walt Disney World has seven parks.

Second, the message being sent seems to be, "Epic Universe is not our finale in Orlando". Without mentioning a specific concept, these folks assure us that "we have a slate of new attractions that are already in development for all of our parks" and "there are already so many things that are in the works now".

What exactly does "in development" or "in the works" mean? Who knows?

(Chuckle)

Certainly it's unreasonable to expect any details on Comcast's plans for expanding/adding to the Florida parks. I would also contend these sort of typical, big fat theme park promo videos like this one (soaring soundtrack, hired models/background actors pretending to be on vacation) are always enjoyable -- even if they don't reveal much of anything. A parody of this video doing the same thing for Gatorland would be hilarious.

But I think one of the reasons Comcast wants everyone to know they have big (unannounced) plans is because there is shelf-life when it comes to being the cool new thing in the Orlando themed entertainment. Certainly if 2025 and 2026 are gonna tilt toward Comcast's Epic Universe (sorry USF and IOA) it seems reasonable to assert that in 2027, 2028, 2029 and 2030 the spotlight will shift right back to Disney's property-wide park expansions at DAK, DHS and MKP. That certainly gives Disney a unique opportunity -- staggering the expansion openings and delivering BIG new experiences year after year after year. And since they have spread the attractions across multiple parks attendance cannibalization is (much) less of a concern.

Until Universal jumps on the bandwagon of building more attractions with no height requirements and having their ride vehicles accommodate more guests of different body types, Disney will always stay on top. Plus Disney wins over a lot of guests with better character meet and greet opportunities. Finally, the food offerings are better at Disney, namely Epcot.

If all universal had to do to beat competition was get rid of heights, and make the seats bigger, then they would have done that a long time ago, There are several highly advanced meet and greets at epic, incorporating animatronics with puppets to make them as lifelike as possible, and I agree with the food,but you haven't tried epics food yet, just looked at it and i already know that toadstool cafe is better than anything at disney.

I tend to agree with TH that the term "gauntlet" is a bit strong - maybe "credible challenge/competitor" is more accurate. I would also agree (and have always questioned) Universal's classification of Volcano Bay as a "theme park" is aggressive in their marketing. However, I do think it's unfair to say that if Universal can categorize Volcano Bay as a theme park, then WDW has SEVEN (7) parks. I've come to accept that TH is never going to come off their assertion that Disney Springs is a theme park (though if you're going to go there, then City Walk is just as much of a theme park), but Disney's pair of water parks have rarely operated simultaneously recently, so the reality is that while Disney does have 2 water parks, most days of the year, only 1 of them is actually open and accessible. So if you want to truly level the playing field, then WDW has 6 "parks", while UO will be at 5 "parks" when Epic opens.

I also tend to agree with TH's argument regarding upcoming WDW projects because they have announced major additions coming to DAK (Tropical Americas), DHS (Monstropolis), and MK (Cars and Villains Lands). We can probably argue for hours about whether moves by either company are organic or reactionary, because of moves made by the competition up the street. However, the fact remains that with this announcement from Universal, development and expansion of theme parks in Orlando is going to shift into high gear over the next 5+ years. How those additions are spaced out over time is unclear, but it does seem that by @2030 the Orlando market could see at least a half dozen or more e-ticket level attractions after Epic opens, which would match the number of major additions made over the previous 10 years prior to Epic opening.

As always, TH takes a very nuts and bolts approach to comparing the 2 companies, and most understand (including TH) that they each operate a bit differently and market their products differently to their customers. TH points to the specific and detailed plans that Disney has already announced for their additions planned over the next 5+ years, while the projects Universal alludes to in this video are all very generic. My feeling is that Universal has established a track record of typically NOT spilling the beans on new attractions until physical construction has begun, which in most cases is not until 12-18 months prior to the anticipated debut. WDW is very different in that they have a content void that needs to be fed, and have instead chosen to announce attractions and developments a year or more before they break ground, which in many cases is 3+ years before the attraction is ready for guests. It's really the D23-effect where Disney has to give its loyal fans something to look forward too (and fill time at annual convention panels), and has put itself in a situation where Disney has to announce attractions years ahead of time to satisfy the unquenchable thirst from their fanbase.

The point being that WDW has announced concrete plans for their next wave of attractions out of necessity, while Universal can be more vague and generic not only because they have a massive new expansion to market in Epic, but they have an established protocol of announcing new attractions just a year or 2 before guests can experience them.

There's no right way or wrong way here, but I will say that Disney's M.O. has come back to bite them in the past, and because they announce concepts well before they're ready to put shovels in the ground, those concepts can sometimes change and/or be completely eliminated from plans (see MK Theater, Mary Poppins, Play Pavilion). WDW seems to live to get their biggest fans into a frenzy, wanting to book their next trip to the resort (perhaps out of necessity to drive their DVC business). Universal tends to allow the rumor mills fly wild (maybe by design to help refine their creative process and bounce potential concepts off their most vocal fans) until they're ready to build, which tends to fit their fanbase.

I think Universal and a lot of regional parks are taking advantage of Disney's missteps. Just look at the Southern California market. Disney's reservation system and its confusing FP/Lightning Lane/whatever it's called system removes the ability of tourists to just spontaneously "plan a day." But you could go to Knott's or USH, pay much less, and have a great time.

Also, as Russell mentioned above, the waits for new Disney experiences have become ridiculous. And even though Florida has TONS of space, they are removing beloved existing attractions instead. I don't know what's going on with Disney, but they need to figure things out.

The quality increase is definitely there with Universal, just since Velocicoaster and Hagrids. But that wasn't a "free" upgrade. The cost of an annual pass has almost doubled during that same period of time. Which, I am fine with the price increase, provided the quality of the experience is maintained.

Now to the elephant in the room that really impacts ALL park experiences ... I-4 traffic. It has become SO difficult to get to the parks, even at traditionally slow times of the year. The traffic issue is going to be unbearable this summer when EPIC opens. And I've been hearing about the new and improved I-4 for 20 years now ... I'll believe it when I see it.

Universal > Disney - For TH Creative..

The New Disney changes are as follows - new Paint on a Flume ride... HAHAHAHAAHAH

I would be more positive about Universal Orlando's future if Kabletown had scrapped the idea for a third gate and upgraded the dead areas and aging rides in the existing parks with the E Ticket attractions built near the convention center.

The original idea of putting MOM and Super Nintendo in the studios would have been a massive upgrade to that park, and I also would have loved to see Cartoon Lagoon upgraded to Isle of Berk and maybe Dark Universe put into Lost Continent. But what's done is done.

Though Universal has the newest toy, I am not certain the Orlando market can support 7 destination theme parks (8 if you include Sea World). There's going to be cannibalization of the existing parks, and Kabletown may have been better served providing an exceptional 3-5 day experience than investing billions to provide a bus supported 7.

This is a problem for the Mouse as well. If Iger could use the Delorean from Universal, cancel plans for Animal Kingdom and plop Pandora into Hollywood Studios and variations on the Dinosaur Ride and Everest into Epcot I wonder if he would borrow the keys.

It's all subjective but I don't care about WDW or Disney in general anymore. For me the new Disney in innovation and customer experience is for sure Universal.

DangerGoat: "I think Universal and a lot of regional parks are taking advantage of Disney's missteps".

Me: And how have these missteps manifested themselves in Disney's operation? What are the impacts, please?

Brian Emery: "Universal > Disney - For TH Creative.. The New Disney changes are as follows - new Paint on a Flume ride... HAHAHAHAAHAH"

Me: Just so damn to being coherent.

@Zarex - But see, that's the point. Universal could have absolutely improved their existing 2 parks with what they've instead used to create Epic and stayed a 3-5 day destination with guests continuing to split their week's vacation with WDW. However as Robert states, Universal is laying down the "gauntlet" by asserting that Universal Orlando, with the addition of Epic (and more to come down the line), is a viable week-long destination and that guests should no longer be looking to split their attention between UO and WDW, instead viewing UO as their ONLY destination when visiting Central Florida. You can agree or disagree with it, but that's what Universal is doing here, and they feel that they no longer need to play second fiddle to the Mouse down the street and that they have the capacity, inventory, and demand to exist as a sole-destination for Orlando visitors similarly to how many currently view WDW. I also think this video is an acceptance and realization that if Universal is to make the claim that guests should spend every day of their vacation in UO, they need to not only have plans in the works to make Epic even better, but they need to not cannibalize their own legacy parks by continuing to add and improve USF and IOA (and to a lesser extent VB). We are already seeing those wheels in motion with the announcement of the RRR closure, and this video would suggest that there's much more to come that will likely address many of the areas of the legacy parks that have been mentioned here and elsewhere (Toon Lagoon, Lost Continent, Fear Factor, and others). The success and reception to Epic will likely play a significant role as to the speed and scope of these potential additions/renovations (obviously beyond whatever is replacing RRR), but it seems pretty clear to me that Universal views Epic as the beginning of a new phase of the resort's evolution, not the end or a singular achievement to fawn over for the next decade without any sort of follow up. If Epic is indeed the 1st act of a magnificent opera to redefine the Orlando theme park landscape, the 2nd and 3rd acts should be monumental, especially if WDW composes their own brilliant melodies and harmonies to conflict and compliment what UO has introduced.

@Russell: I am not sure if it was intentional, but Disney has positioned itself to sign construction contracts with very competitive pricing. There is not a lot of big projects coming out of the ground in Central Florida. Plenty of healthcare construction, but (outside of Disney) theme park and hotel work has decelerated. Disney may be in a position to "buy hard".

Whoever inherits this company as the next CEO may be ushering in the company's next golden age: Parks (around the planet) cruise lines and studio.

@TH - I would agree, though it is concerning some of the recent non-park announcements coming from the company including that Disney Animation would be scaling back their projects, particularly in not developing content for Disney+ (i.e. cancelling the Tianna animated series). I see some serious challenges ahead for both companies, but also some incredible opportunities for leaders who are willing to challenge the status quo and refocus on what each does best by redefining what the core of their business is going to be. I would not be surprised if one or both major park operators find themselves as a company fully independent of its current parent, because I strongly believe the first one that is able to untether itself from the politics and complications of the greater entertainment industry will surly have a leg up in terms of creative freedom.

Epic will undoubtedly be a success, but eventually the distance between the parks will begin to become an issue.

Yes, Disney parks are almost as far apart as Universal, but their transportation between parks is much better due to it confined to WDW.

As suspected, the Epic bus lanes start after Carrier, so that ride between the parking garage and the new park is going to be one of the things to watch once Epic opens. Stella Nova guests are already complaining about length of the ride, so who knows what it's going to be like after May 22nd.

I4 construction is an absolute shambles, with Sand Lake not scheduled to open until 2027. The traffic concerns are real enough ..... I'll be interested to see what the Kirkman extension really does for thru traffic, and those heading to Epic. Supposedly that will open before the park ??

If Universal wants to challenge Disney as the king of Orlando, they're going to have to:

1. Build better/more family rides. They have nothing like The Haunted Mansion or The Jungle Cruise or Pirates of the Caribbean that the whole family can enjoy.

2. Improve their food. In the past year, my wife and I have enjoyed several good meals in the parks at Disney while the food at Universal has markedly declined in quality over the last decade. Our last meal at Mythos was mediocre at best.

3. Stop closing rides before they're ready to replace them with something better. The Eighth Voyage of Sindbad and Poseidon's Fury are prime examples. Sure they were hokey, but they were attractions that the whole family could experience.

@Russell: My thinking on that is having the Magic Kingdom, the world's most popular theme park in your portfolio gives the Mouse a massive advantage in the battle of the week long destination theme park resorts. I have taken multiple trips to Central Florida without setting foot within the Disney bubble, but for most families the Mouse's second castle park is a must do. It is a massive risk for Kabletown to force vacation goers to make a choice along with adding another destination park to what may be an overbuilt market.

I thought Universal had a great thing going with a walkable resort that appealed to adults and older children, while providing a better guest experience with more affordable accommodations and ticket options with less planning and bus travel required than their competition down the road. Upgrading IOA and US with the billions invested in EU would have allowed them to dominate their target audience, and with the trend in America of taking shorter vacations there is an advantage to being a great 3-5 day resort. What Kabletown is doing is much, much riskier, but we shall see how it turns out for the two media behemoths.

@tim Hillman:

1. A good point. My sister has a six year old and muses on how Disney just has so much more for him than Universal does. She'd have to wait another five years or so for him to be ready for most of Universal's fare.

2. Disney has always had the edge in better meals and variety than Universal and heard others saying Universal's quality has lessened in last few years. That can be a factor.

3. Agree on that, I enjoyed those two attractions and baffling they got shut down before even a replacement announced.

@ Russell: I think every multinational entertainment company has its challenges -- no matter what is going on in the world. But I think Disney is in a really strong position. I also think Disney's plans for content are actually pretty sharp. Sure they're playing it safe, but the titles they are developing have track records. 'Lilo & Stitch' (which will make a billion bucks), 'Freakier Friday', 'TRON: Ares', 'Zootopia 2', 'Moana' (Live Action), 'Toy Story 5', 'Frozen 3', etc. Then there are more Star Wars and Marvel products and another Avatar.

And (with the exception of 'Freakier Friday') what do all these tried and true titles have in common? They all have park footprints.

Jeremygary: "The quality increase is definitely there with Universal, just since Velocicoaster and Hagrids."

Me: Yeah that Minions thing and the Shrek playground are cutting edge to say the least!

@TH - And I think you're seeing a similar trend from the other side of town with Universal also committing to sequels of proven franchises with park footprints like Jurassic Park, How to Train Your Dragon, Shrek, Fast and Furious, and Minions/Despicable Me (along with smaller extensions of the Monsters franchise and Blumhouse franchises often used for HHN).

"And (with the exception of 'Freakier Friday') what do all these tried and true titles have in common? They all have park footprints." Not to get picky, but does Stitch still have a park footprint as you would define it?

Nonetheless, I do think that trying to synergize theme park and big screen (or even small screen) IP is perilous at best. Movie productions and theme park construction move at very difference speeds/pace, and even minor changes that can be made at the snap your fingers on a movie set cannot be done so nimbly on a theme park attraction/land. Ultimately, I think it's better to leave the theme park design to those folks while giving them the necessary freedom and creative liberties to modify existing expressions of the IP. Being too rigid and literal has been proven to exponentially inflate costs and timelines for very little overall benefit and often at the cost of other planned features.

I do think the trend moving forward will be a more selective group of proven IPs that are given the green light and applied in the parks because of the level of detail and cost needed to produce attractions and lands in a modern theme park. The bar has been raised, and guest expectations are high, so designers cannot afford to spend on something that doesn't have wide awareness/appeal or at the very least a proven track record of success, which honestly makes Tron a bit of the oddball of recent developments.

I think id prefer if epic universe was a giant parking lot and just do light rail from there to Universal proper. Implode the the parking deck rats nets at us/ioa. Implode all of those studios where nickelodeon is and put your thirdgate there. 4th gate where all the parking structure was. A walkable Disney. But nope. Parking decks. Woohoo... those will always be points off for me.

My two cents: Comcast is playing the looong game. The United States isn't the same marketplace it was in 1971. There's a big demographic shift as life gets pricier and more people delay or decide not to have kids altogether.

Orlando is still a family vacation destination. But I would bet the trend is more of those families are childless with high levels of disposable income (and thus, maybe more interested in Universal's "more grown-up" offerings) as opposed to the presumed standard families with 2.5 kids in tow.

East Asia has the same demographic shift, but 10-20 years ahead. Anecdotally, our parks here are packed with 20/30/40-somethings. Also feels worth noting that Japan is the only market where Universal surpasses Disney's attendance.

I would be pretty curious to see how the "typical guest" data has changed over the years, but older and richer both feel like safe bets.

Food for thought ¯\_(?)_/¯

Every time I have an intelligent post the website refreshes and deletes my brilliance.

First, I love how Zarex keeps referring to Comcast as Kabletown. As a 30 Rock fan, I salute you. Second, the Orlando traffic issue is so real. The last couple of times (as recently as November) I tried to get from Tampa to Orlando, it took almost four hours. I grew up in Southern California and people complain about traffic there, but I think Florida has SoCal beat.

Finally, to address TH Creative: Disney's missteps have not had devastating impacts yet, but I'd say they are right on the verge. The surge pricing idea may push them over the edge. I can say anecdotally that Knott's and USH appear to be a lot busier than they used to be as people are priced out of Disney.

Disney allows you to park your car and escape for a week and if you plan it right you never have to see another unfortunate sole (that isnt some disgruntled employee) for a week just people also having the time of their life. Im going to end up in city traffic to go from Epic to US seeing Orlando's finest along the way.

People aspire to work at Disney. Rando's work at Universal. The pierced tattooed unwashed masses work at Universal and with Harry Potterites being full grown with spawns of their own that culture is embraced by Universal. Alot of money is going to escape your pocket for that trade-off for the illusion of a dreamworld. Disney will forever be able to charge $1 more than the equivalent experience at Universal.

Universal has to come correct with the rides or they arent a draw. Unfortunately it's alot of one and done. Once i day-trip all of Epic I probably wont set foot in Universal until the rip ride rocket replacement rollercoaster is running.

Getting rid of King Kong and Jaws type rides where the castmembers personalities could bleed through is essentially gone. Why would i want to re-ride anything at Universal now. Pro tip: i dont. Where is their Jungle Cruise? Where is their Rise of Resistance?

These Universal c-suite folks never played a second of rollercoaster tycoon and are one interview away from being CEO for a pampers company. they dont care. Making tik toks about how your baby's dry diaper will make you whole. Notice how none of them talking about their formative years (it would be disney if they werent some MBA talking head) at Universal and how they want to stay true to what they knew and loved... the equivalent Disney video will have pictures of younger-them in mouse ears pointing.... with the real deal smile. A universal equivalent is teenage-them underage smoking cigarettes in back to the future queue... i mean i get it.

@puckpilgrim - Biased much? Making assertions and evaluations of a park that hasn't even opened to the public, that's rich. It's one thing to evaluate an attraction based off a POV, but we don't even have that yet for anything inside Epic, and the only details we have to go off of are general attraction descriptions and vague (and sometimes funny and obviously satirical) comments from (biased) TMs who have had an opportunity to visit the park over the past week.

Also, to be so brash and judgmental about an entire group of employees is so blatantly discriminatory. I'm not sure if you're trying to virtue signal or are deliberately being hyperbolic as a way to try to differentiate the two companies. Nonetheless, it's frankly repugnant and really doesn't serve a purpose. Perhaps you would be willing to repeat what you've said to former WDI folks who now work at UC, because it's not just disrespectful, but just plain false.

As far as attractions and aspects of the park that allow for some TM improv and character development/embellishment, there are numerous reports that these types of roles are present in Epic and that extends to general TMs who have reportedly been asked to develop their own stories and characters that integrate into their duties similar to what Disney did with Galaxy's Edge. To say there's no Jungle Cruise or RotR is impossible to determine right now, because there are no specifics for the overall attraction and park experience. However, we do know that there are roaming characters in a number of the lands and numerous character meet and greet experiences that are far beyond what has ever been attempted before in terms of technology and interaction. We already have some indication of what the Donkey Kong interaction will be like given that it's being done in Japan, but if the reviews and POVs of that experience are consistent with the similar interaction in Epic, that single meet and greet would already top anything at WDW. The aerial photos and videos of the characters being presented in Isle of Berk indicate an experience that will be jaw dropping.

Ultimately, I just don't see that basis for your comment here or why you felt the need to post it. You are certainly free to state your opinion, but to do so in such a nasty, disrespectful, and patently untruthful way is not beneficial to this discussion.

With respect to puckpilgrim’s last post, I think I just read the literary equivalent of a hairball barfed up on the living room floor. It was so brilliantly bad that social scientists in the future will declare it to be the signpost event marking the beginning of the decline of modern, western civilization.

I have had wonderful service from both Disney and Universal. I think Universal has stepped up its service while Disney has taken a step back (likely due to having to manage the huge crowds that seem to get worse all the time).

That being said, is Disney now firing Imagineers or something? That store they slapped down outside of the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland could NOT have been made by Imagineers. My goodness that is beyond bad.

To address a post up above, I while I agree that Universal could use a few more rides of different types, I feel that Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey is still the best theme park rides of all time. Even as a life long Star Wars fan, I think it is better than Rise of the Resistance, which is amazing.

No the fall is, the photo of someone with a hand tatoo serving kids banana popcorn in Nintendoland trying to use a non-functional magic wand with a selfie stick whilst live streaming to tiktok... as they run into a dead end as their phone dies seconds before a notification of virtual queue from 1:27 to 1:34 for mario (not to exceed 5mph) golfkart comes through.

Yeah US: universally screens; IOA: institutionalized omission of actors

Who cares about a store's themeing. Parotting talking points? Im sure they could go to whatever pop-up-halloween shop Universal bought (on clearance) "themeing" for Forbidden Journey and just make it look spooky, Monster unleashed may be the redemption arc for kokococopouff arms but that arc includes a drastic revisiting Forgoe (i beg you... forego aka dont ride) journey

I swear if you kids don't stop arguing I'm going to turn this car around and there'll be no wally world for anyone.

TH hissy fit.... shocker. Denial is the first stage of grief, but he's stuck on anger. I have seen some bargaining, maybe a little depression, but zero acceptance.

I get that puckpilgrim is being an ass and/or deliberately provacative. But it's possible to be that and yet still have some points of validity.

He's right in that you can stay at DisneyWorld and never leave that bubble. You won't encounter the 'real' world for the entire time of your stay unless you choose to and that can be magical. Travelling through downtown Orlando on a bus is not going to be that magical even if the destination is amazing. That might not matter to some/many/all guests but we will have to wait to discover the ratio and whether it's a thing of consequence or not.

I also get the difference between Disney and Universal. As someone who expected to adore Universal because of it's cutting-edge rides and use of technology and major 'wow' factor I was surprised to find that I actually fell for Disney's 'magic'. That's hard to pin down and I honestly can't rationally explain it but there was something about the atmosphere in Disney's parks that Universal lacked. What was most telling was that at both Universal parks we did the rides but didn't linger for the park whereas at Disney we spent as much time simply lingering in the parks and enjoying the environment as we did experiencing the rides, probably longer. We even would go into a Disney park just to linger and not to ride anything, something we'd never consider doing at a Universal park. Celestial Park might just change that equation but I can only comment on past experience and there'll still be the two legacy parks...

As for the staff I don't hold to Puckpilgrim's crude charicature. No one on here needs to be cruel. But I do have to say that my personal experience has been that Disney cast members tend to be more in the moment than Universal's operatives, more 'magical' if you will. Obviously that's a personal feeling but I think it's a valid thing to observe.

Whether any of this matters is moot. I suspect Disney and Universal will continue to be successful and excel at what they do. I fear for Seaworld and Busch Gardens Tampa which I feel might end up squeezed but my gut feeling is that Universal and Disney hit different markets with a degree of overlap

puck... i want to work at universal creative. i'm really upset by the things you said. this is a friendly theme park group, not a "lets insult people who are going against my crown jewel disney park group!" please be nice, we are all passionate about different things, as i happen to be very passionate about universal. there doing things that really look like they will overtake disney. Do you really think some rando drug addicts made epic universe. yeah, me neither.

Byrn: I completely agree that maybe this whole time we were comparing waffle house to chipotle instead of coke and pepsi. you can like breakfast food, you can like mexican, and you can like both. I disagree with magic but you already talked about that so thanks for letting ANOTHER argument die down *eyeroll* but it could be that you just haven't been to epic yet. maybe epic has a different kind of magic that we just cant wait to see. also if you want to argue more about puck, the chat section is limitless, but lets not beat the dead horse of puck and just leave the stinging words alone.

Have you guys heard of the Monroe Doctrine? It was a statement that America made in the days of old that said that North America was done being colonized. This statement is the Universal Monroe Doctrine - Orlando is no longer fit for Disney.

I like what Russell said about park announcement schedules. Just because Universal hasn't set anything in stone doesn't mean they have nothing planned - how can TH say that when Universal is taking down RRR? They have to be replacing it with something.

I might sound like a shill for universal, but they have promise, arguably more than Disney. Epic universe is a big shiny lure so that Universal can justify fixing up their legacy parks when it breaks even.

Also, glad to see at least one 30 rock fan at TPI. Remember that episode where they called out by name flight of the hippogriff when it was new? Now that's synergy.

@epicuniversefan:
I'd love to go to Epic and from what we can see it seems that Universal is making a huge leap into immersive, traditionally Disney territory.
Magic is entirely subjective. I can only report my reactions and impressions. I trust you understand I wasn't defending puckpilgrim, merely observing that even the most offensive and thoughtless people can sometimes have a point. Virtue doesn't have a monopoly on truth sadly. Just because the person saying something is a ***** (fill in your own term) doesn't mean the points he makes should or can be ignored if they can be made in less offensive terms.

One thing I have to pull you up on however: Epic is a very different beast (it seems) to the other two Universal parks (yes, I don't count a waterpark as a theme park!). so Epic might be amazing. It might be totally immersive and compelling and everything you hope it will be. But the Universal Experience isn't Epic on its own. It's part and parcel of the entire Universal exprerience so the impressions of the existing Universal parks will continue to be part of the overall Universal experience.

VelocicoasterFan - The momentum shift to Universal started in 2010 with the opening of The Wizarding World. USH Attendance was up 62% in the year after the opening of Diagon Alley. They are going for the jugular with Epic Universe.

The denial among the Pixie Dusters is palpable. Every hardcore Disney site and YouTube channel all saying te same thing... "Epic Universe will be great for Disney"... yeah, OK. That's the bargaining stage of grief.

The stages of grief thing works surprisingly well here.

I want to clarify: the Wizarding World was a turning point, but won't pay to fix up all of the aging lands at the parks. It's harder to oversell new lands when you can make a new park and force guests to bundle it.

Over on the TPI Discussion Page there is a thread titled "The Galactic Starcruiser hotel building is getting repurposed". The term "Pixie Duster" was included at the top of the thread.

Jack H responded: "I highly encourage you not to use the term "pixie dusters" as it just comes off as juvenile."

NB responded: "Agreed."

Epic looks great, and I am planning on visiting the park early next year. But I don't think it will be the D-Con for the competition that certain types are hoping for.

Kabletown has had incredible success with Harry, but the third land based on a not so fantastic spin off likely will not carry that same appeal. I grew up watching Universal Monster movies on Saturday morning, and love what Epic is doing with Dark Universe. But will millennials have the same enthusiasm for characters that peaked half a century before they were born? Super Nintendo World is a terrific rendering of the games, but I am not overly impressed with the offerings behind that Portal. The most compelling land appears to be Berk, but if the live action reboot underperforms that may negatively impact future crowd levels.

My guess is Epic will take a while to find it's footing, and should do well. But I don't think it will be a Mouse killer.

TH - Really? This is your response? I'm on the largest Club 33 Facebook page. They are proud to call themselves Pixie Dusters, which I find hilarious.

Apparently, you need to spend 25K to have that title bestowed on you, and not be offended by it.

Zarex - "Kabletown"... I love it, and yes, I get the reference.

"The stages of grief thing works surprisingly well here." - I know,right?

I also agree that Universal better spend the next few years upping their game at USF and IOA. Way too many unused buildings. Simpsons is going away by 2028, and RRR being taken down, so they ave a lot of work ahead of them.

Pretty sure the Volcano Bay expansion plot is still vacant as well.

@Zarex - I don't think Ministry of Magic is based in the Fantastic Beasts Universe. While the land itself is set in the Paris Ministry shown in that series, the stories being told are decidedly from the HP timeline including the "big bad", Dolores Umbridge with the flues (ride system) used as the way to transport guests to the London Ministry. It looks like UC has leveraged the settings from Fantastic Beasts as a "portal" to the same HP timeline used across the other WWoHP lands. Now, Universal has stated that there will be some flourishes from the FB franchise, particularly the creatures and maybe some characters, but it does seem that the land will be decided grounded in the timeline where Harry is still at Hogwarts.

It really is a shame that Warner Brothers and J. K. Rowling fumbled the ball as hard as they did with the Fantastic Beasts franchise. I wish they would’ve allowed her to write some books before heading straight for the deep end and creating screen plays exclusively for the films. Anyhow, that’s probably a topic for discussion/debate for another thread. Universal was probably wise to leverage a modern take on the Ministry of Magic into the period setting of a Paris landscape. That will allow Potter fans to enjoy the best of both worlds. “Non-story essential”characters like the various beasts, visual Easter Eggs and eccentricities can be marveled at by Potter Diehards while a more compelling story can be enjoyed on the ride featuring an outstanding villain. Some would say the most evil character in the Potterverse.

Zarex: "Kabletown has had incredible success with Harry, but the third land based on a not so fantastic spin off likely will not carry that same appeal".

Me: I don't think the land is based on the Fantastic Beast films. The story associated with the Ministry of Magic attraction involves the trial of Delores Umbridge.

50th comment! this has been going on for too long

TH Creative: I don't think the land is based on the Fantastic Beast films. The story associated with the Ministry of Magic attraction involves the trial of Delores Umbridge.

Me: The land itself is Paris from the second Fantastic Beasts film. But you're teleported to the UK Ministry (in the future) for the ride. It's one of the weirder choices in Epic Universe.

Holy Schnikies! The last I saw this thread, it was around 20 comments. Now that I've caught up, I felt I had to throw my 3 cents in the ring.

Having had my first UO experience this past year, when I've been a lifelong Disneyphile, I cannot say enough about the UO team members! I was specifically paying attention to them, and I was both impressed and delighted. Being a Universal newb, I asked a lot of questions from many different TMs. Each one took the time, courtesy, and dare I even say...pleasure in answering them.

There's no question that these two worlds are different. Disney will never be UO and UO will never be Disney and I honestly love that! Because I've gotten older, I appreciate Disney more for its slower pace (attraction wise) while I loved the ease of being able to stroll Universal without planning every minute detail.

Next trip to Orlando will be Disney and the following trip will be EU. They're both going to get my money!

"It's one of the weirder choices in Epic Universe."

Is it really that weird? UC is grounding the new land in the same stories that the previous WWoHP lands were based upon. However, I do think the original plan (probably a decade or more ago) was to completely base the land in the Fantastic Beasts franchise. With that franchise obviously not gaining the same traction as the OG Potterverse, Universal wisely pivoted and took the best of both worlds. I actually think it's quite brilliant, because if WB and Rowling do stumble upon future success with Fantastic Beasts, Universal will be able to capitalize on it with a land whose fundamental design and architecture is straight out of that series.

I do love reading the replies to articles like this as the Disney v Universal divide is instantly there. I love both and believe that Orlando can support both. I am hoping that the addition of Epic Universe will create a bit more breathing space at WDW with fewer people and less queue times spread over the year. Both have their loyal fans and that will never change but it will be interesting to see what the floaters choose and how frequently. Time will tell.

I think it's weird because of the time discrepancy. They were in a bind because recreating London wouldn't work with Diagon Alley over at USF, and like you said, Fantastic Beasts wasn't popular enough to justify its own attraction. Now you have a weird mash of time periods: 1920s Paris surroundings and a modern-ish London-set attraction.

This would be like placing a Star Wars attraction set in the original trilogy within Galaxy's Edge. Based on fans' reaction to the anachronism of certain characters walking around Galaxy's Edge, you know people would be up in arms if Disney ever did something like this.

Maybe WDI can borrow a time turner for Galaxys Edge? Or create a portal that’s supposed to be the World Between Worlds…

None of us has read a single book about Universal and its history (doesnt exist). However if a well written book came out tomorrow about Disney we would all wishlist it. Universal Creative had better start plumbing their movie franchises and put me in these scenes again.... live action how to train their dragon. As if they were disney lol

man, you REALLY hate universal dont you

epicuniversefan - These people don't "hate" Universal. They just watched that half day park that was zero threat to Disney rise up to become a juggernaut in Orlando. Epic is about to steal the show, and some of them are acting like a trapped animal in nature.

Acting erratically and blindly lashing out at everything around them.

Disney could have had the Wizarding World all to themselves, but they refused to give up any creative control. Universal wrote JK Rowling a blank check and let her sign off on every detail.

It's fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and it's palpable.

puckpilgrim, check:

JayBangs - Sam Gennawey
Universal v Disney - Sam Gennawey
Universal Orlando - The Unofficial Story - Nick Sim

I have all three and all are excellent. For Universal fans definitely read the Nick Sim book first but all three are highly recommended.