Hot take debate: Disney Genie+ should cost more - a lot more

Raise that sucker past $100. Make it as expensive as Universal’s Express pass.

I have said this for years, Disney has a number of attractions that don’t need it at all. Omnimover and boat attractions are fast loading and you would probably never see them over 30 minutes even on high capacity days. Currently they serve to pull people off of the slower loaders.

Also, if you are going to charge a ton for ILL, then let people get them for the same attraction multiple times. I do think the current system is much better than FP+ but worse than the original FP. Personally, I don’t care if they do jack up the prices, as I use rewards points for most visits.

The problem is the middle class family of four that does not know the system. You would have riots when a family pays more than a two week European vacation and the kid that is the Star Wars fan cannot ride a Star Wars ride.

The other big problem with G+ is that the rides are going down much, much more than ever before. If they are going to charge so much, the rides need to work.

Short answer: Yes, Genie+ is severely underpriced. However, simply raising the price isn't a good solution to fix the issues with it. Instead, I'm going to counter with a complete system overhaul combining the best elements of several different skip the line systems.

First things first, let's scale back the number of attractions on the system at each park to only those that are the newest, most popular and/or lowest capacity. Here's the list I'd use (asterisks represent premium attractions):

DL: Falcon, Indy, Mansion (Holiday only), Matterhorn, Rise*, Roger Rabbit, Runaway Railway, Space, Thunder, Tiana's*
MK: Characters (Ariel, Cinderella, Mickey, Tiana), Buzz, Jungle Cruise, Mansion, Peter Pan*, Seven Dwarfs*, Space, Thunder, Tiana's*, Tron*
EP: Characters (Anna and Elsa), Frozen*, Guardians*, Soarin', Remy*, Test Track*
DHS: Characters (Disney Stars), ASS, Falcon, Rise*, RnRC*, Runaway Railway, Slinky*, Tower*, TSMM
DAK: Characters (Disney Pals), Everest, Flight of Passage*, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Na'vi River Journey*
DCA: Guardians, Incredicoaster, Monsters, Inc., Racers*, Sky School, Soarin', TSMM, Web Slingers

Anything not listed above would be available via a stand-by queue only.

As for the system itself, operation would be similar to the way the Six Flags Flash Pass system runs. Guests would pick an attraction, then receive a return time based on the actual wait in line. They would then have one hour to use that return time and would be unable to book another until they've either scanned in at the attraction or their reservation has expired. The system would offer different tiers and price points, each with different benefits, restrictions, and availability. The tiers would be (and yes, we're bringing back legacy names for this)...

FastPass: With this tier, guests can obtain a return time equal to the actual posted wait (i.e. if the wait is 60 minutes, the start of the return window will be in 60 minutes). At this tier, guests are not eligible to use the system on any premium attractions, and they may only use it once per attraction (for characters, each encounter counts as a separate attraction). There would be no limit to the number of guests purchasing at this level. Prices for this level would be $50-70 per guest, per day for single park access and $100-140 per guest, per day for resort-wide access.

FastPass PLUS: With this tier, guests can obtain a return time equal to half of the actual posted wait (i.e. if the wait is 60 minutes, the start of the return window will be in 30 minutes). At this tier, guests may use the system once on each premium attraction and as many times as desired on other attractions. To prevent overuse, this tier would be capped at 10% of the park capacity. Prices for this level would be $70-90 per guest, per day for single park access and $130-160 per guest, per day for resort-wide access.

FastPass MAX: With this tier, guests can obtain a return time equal to one fourth of the actual posted wait (i.e. if the wait is 60 minutes, the start of the return window will be in 15 minutes). At this tier, guests are eligible to use the pass as much as desired on all participating attractions. Due to this, the tier would be extremely limited by being capped at 1% of the park capacity. Prices for this level would be $100-160 per guest, per day for single park access and $210-250 per guest, per day for resort-wide access.

To ensure nobody can complain about not being able to use the system, guests would get a certain amount of guaranteed reservations at the time of purchase (2 for base, 3 for PLUS, 5 for MAX). These would be pre-selected and queued up right away, with the first giving a return time at opening (if purchased before opening) or based on the posted wait at time of purchase (if purchased afterward). As soon as the guest scans in at the first ride, the next would automatically reserve, and so on until all pre-selections were redeemed. After that point, guests could reserve attractions one at a time on a space available basis. In the event a guest wishes to change their reservation, they will always have the option to cancel and book a new reservation, but any pre-selected reservations that are canceled do not keep the guaranteed availability for replacements. In the event an attraction is unavailable due to downtime or all remaining reservations being full, guests will be notified prior to completing purchase for the day.

How will the system ensure accuracy of wait times? With today's technology, it is not difficult to track the number of people entering and leaving attractions digitally. The system would know how many people are in line for the attraction at any given time (both physically and virtually) as well as the operational capacity of the attraction, which would allow for calculation of an accurate wait estimate. For example, if a ride dispatches 30 riders per minute on average, for each 30 guests in the queue one minute would be added to the wait time, and for each 30 guests that exit the attraction, one minute would be subtracted. While not infallible, this system should theoretically yield much more accurate estimates than traditional methods.

Overall, it'd be a massive system change with quite a bit of complexity, but the net result is a better experience for both those who choose to purchase access and those who choose not to do so, all while lining Disney's pockets with even more cash than is currently generated.

The point of comparison for me is the Merlin parks . Fast pass bundles at Alton Towers start at £32 ($40) and that gets you only four rides of their choosing, none of them headline coasters, next level is 6 of their selected coasters for £55 ($69). Of you want all the fastrack rides, bring £130 ($163), each person (but at least the last one is unlimited)

I think if they raised the prices, lowered the number sold per day, and removed the two newest rides for each park off of the Lightning Lane option that would help the situation tremendously.

AJ and Robert, I hear you, but the difference between Six Flags and Disney (and why their system is so problematic) is that many people will still buy the system. To quote Syndrome, if everyone is special no one is. I agree with the most popular on the system and nothing else. I believe they need to have a lottery and ILL for the most popular attractions but don’t limit ILL to a one time use. Then you have a FP system for only the longer wait attractions. All other is standby.

You cannot do a Universal system with a hotel perk, because Disney simply has too many people staying in those hotels. They also have a sea of people. The other problem is the current attraction downtime issue. Disney is so expensive that some people feel that due to the incredible cost, you might as well spend the extra money.

Of course most of my concerns are with WDW. I find DL much more manageable. What WDW needs is a fifth gate. Just because Dinosaur has a five minute wait does not mean it needs to be necessarily scrapped with a new land. Spread the people out with another gate. Also, add more crowd attractors like shows and character meetups. Of course all of this is on a fan’s perspective. The attraction operating costs are an issue. It seems like every perk is cut back: not as many characters out an about, no packages sent to hotels, no magical shuttle…

With the original FP, my family could easily do 20 attractions a day with several multiple experiences for favorite rides. Then FP+ came out. 8-10. With Genie+ we can do somewhere in between. Last time I did Cosmic Rewind and Rise both three times in a day, but many favorite attractions were limited to one only. And the down times were unbelievable.

I think any sort of lottery system would go over with the fans like a free root canal…

The biggest problem with Genie+ is what guests expect they are buying vs. what they are actually buying. The expectation is that guests will be able to use the LL for the attractions that support Genie+. The reality is Genie+ gives guests access to the reservation system. That's it. There is no guarantee that attractions/times will be available.

I agree, raising the prices closer to Universal levels could help reduce some strain on the system, but part of what makes Express so valuable is no reservations are required. You simply show up to an attraction and enter the Express queue. Perhaps reducing the number of Genie+ users through price increases would alleviate some of the strain and make more return times available.

However, I have a modest proposal: eliminate Genie+ entirely. Instead, have every attraction supported by dynamically priced Individual Lightning Lane return times. Want to ride Tron at night? That's going to cost an extra $10 vs riding during the day. Certain attractions have lower wait times during the lunch rush? You'll pay less for an ILL return time in these hours. This would also ensure guests receive actual value for what they purchase. A Genie+ reservation for MuppetVision or Turtle Talk with Crush is really nothing of substantial value.

Under this method, guests would only purchase what they need--rides they absolutely do not want to miss or queues they absolutely cannot stand. By introducing the dynamic pricing, Disney can game it out so this system brings in as much revenue as Genie+ -- and there's opportunity for bringing in a whole lot more!

Part of the other problem is that if they do change it, if it is a major change they may or may not test it effectively. I was part of a focus group with the previous changes and was surprised at how little seemed to have been done before they switched to FP+. For a time they allowed FP and FP+ to go at the same time. They then rolled out the app when it was half baked.

I recall comments (I think it was by AJ) about why the Universal system would not work, but the basic numbers of guests compared to number of attractions coupled with the number of hotel guests is a huge factor. Also, this is even with a good number of guests that ride very few attractions compared to Universal.

It's maddening to me that Disney had a decent, accessible, and fair system in FP+, but the thirst for additional revenue has turned that system into a complete debacle that does nothing to improve the overall guest experience. It really irks me that Disney essentially took FP+, started charging guests a fee (for something that they touted just a few years ago was part of the admission cost), and then took away some of the perks of FP+ (ability to pre-select 3 attractions and to use the service on the same attraction multiple times in the same day) when they created Genie+. So guests are now paying for something that used to be "free" and then cut that system off at the knees so it's not even half as valuable to guests as it was before they started monetizing it.

The issue with Genie+ is that far too many guests see it as "essential" to enjoy a day at a Disney park, so a significant percentage of guests are willing to pay whatever Disney charges for the service even if it only incrementally improves your day. In fact, after Disney introduced Genie+, they deliberately scaled back the expectations from the service in the marketing by stating guests could avoid 3-4 lines per day (down from 5-6 when the service launched). What's worse is that expectation has to be taken with a grain of slat, because if you're not well-versed in its use, those 3-4 lines you avoid might be for low priority attractions. Additionally, as Robert and others have noted, there are so many guests buying Genie+ that the service struggles to deliver any sort of value and the standby guest experience is even further deteriorated because so many people think the NEED to buy Genie+. I think Disney actually likes it that way, because it makes Genie+ a commodity with a price that can be easily manipulated to meet financial needs. An extra $3-5 here for something 40-50% of park guests don't bat an eyelash at buying (and another 30% of guests may still consider purchasing), it's easy for Disney to generate revenue at the drop of a hat when needed, far more so than raising admission prices.

While I think exponentially raising the price of Genie+ (to $100+/person/day) would make it work better and ultimately make the parks easier to navigate for EVERYONE, it would turn this steady stream of revenue that Disney can easily manage into a very finicky/fickle source of revenue that will take a lot more effort from Disney to manage. Also, with significantly higher prices would come higher expectations, which could threaten the perception of the service. As it stands right now, Disney can charge $30+/per/day for Genie+, and guests are fine bypassing the line for Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Dumbo, and not much else. However, if they're paying $100+, guests are going to want to essentially get a VIP-type experience, which I think would put such a limitation on the service that it simply couldn't work from an operations perspective. Ultimately, I think we're stuck with this awful-performing, pretty worthless system simply because the Drones keep buying it. Until those people come to their senses and start realizing how much they're paying for something that offers such limited value, Disney is going to continue to ring the cash register. The incremental increases to the price will continue, and nothing will change. In the end, I think Disney needs to just get rid of the idea of bypassing lines altogether (aside from the VIP tours), and go back to managing lines through park capacity. I am interested to see how Epic Universe handles crowd control with their portals, because that could be the future of theme park management/operations where guests are artificially restricted from experiencing theme parks/attractions as a way to manage capacity. Additional controls that limit the ability of guests to repeat attractions in the same day may also change the way crowds are managed.

I'm all for raising the prices at Disney and Universal on the regular admissions and getting rid of the paid line shortcuts. Put everybody on an equal footing and treat them the same. Nobody wants to feel like a second class citizen when they're standing in line at a theme park and the people in the expedited line are just blowing right by. If the onsite hotel guests want a perk for paying an overpriced rate for an onsite hotel, let them into the parks an hour earlier than the offsite guests. Keep it simple and keep it fair.

Excellent article, Robert.

Hear, hear, Russell!

HappyHaunt, I don't think it's purely a usership issue. Six Flags and Cedar Fair both sell season long skip the line passes, resulting in a lot of people using them at those parks, but in my experience it impacts Cedar Fair lines way more than Six Flags. What's the biggest difference? One is not tied to the stand-by line in any way (Cedar Fair), while one takes actual wait times into consideration when distributing return times (Six Flags). Disney's system is more like the former, as while Genie+ return windows are based on the number of people using that system, they aren't tied to the length of the regular line. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be a major issue as return times are still spaced out, but it creates a problem if there's any disruption to normal operation of attractions (which, as you said, seems to have increased in recent times). By pre-scheduling based on consistent capacity, things can quickly get backed up if anything causes that to not be the case, and since guests are now paying for Lightning Lane access it's essential that they be prioritized over non-paying stand-by guests to avoid complaints. This isn't an issue with the system Six Flags uses because 1. If a ride goes down, no return times are issued until it comes back up, and 2. Guests can't reserve another attraction without using or canceling the first, which prevents overloading the system with guests holding three or four active reservations at once.

As for why including it as a perk wouldn't work at Walt Disney World, it's simply a matter of magnitude. The three hotels with the Universal Express perk combined have 2,000-2,500 rooms, while at WDW a single property may have more than that count. To be fair, though, a system like Genie+ could be offered at a much greater volume as a free perk than one like Universal Express (which is pretty much unlimited access whenever you want), but not at a level that would allow Disney enough capacity to also sell it to other guests and make a substantial profit off the system.

As for a lottery, that would be the most guest-unfriendly option and may actually be illegal depending on the jurisdiction. I've already boycotted WDW as long as the virtual queues are in place because I strongly disagree with the way they are implemented, and if parks started asking you to pay for something that you might end up not receiving legal action would most definitely result.

As for MyHandsDontScan's suggestion, that is actually a setup that is beginning to gain popularity, either in addition to or instead of the full day access systems. The main downside of that setup is it wouldn't generate as much profit for the park as fewer guests would buy the passes, which defeats the purpose of what is to most parks primarily seen as an additional revenue stream.

Russell is right. Many visitors see Genie+ as an essential part to their WDW experience. I think the problem here is how the reservation system disperses times and people. I've been in Standby queue for a ride with a thirty minute wait time just to have it shoot up to ninety just because the LL floods with Genie+ people. The worst is Seven Dwarves Mine Train. One day, the standby wait time shot up from sixty minutes to two-and-half hours just because everyone showed up in the LL all at once. It's infuriating and exhausting.

Even if they don't raise the price or limit the number number sold in a day, they need to limit how many can show to one ride at a particular time. The one hour window is to vague. There needs to be more control.

I still say that the newest rides should be removed from the Genie+ menu. It should be standby and single rider until the novelty wears off, just like Universal did for Velocicoaster and how it does for Hagrid's.

Everything AJ Hummel said. That is the best take I've seen.

This is all very interesting. As to the lottery and G+, that is different and does not cost extra. That being said, you still have to buy a park ticket, so there is that. It is how I could ride some of those attractions three times a day: two lotteries and one ILL.

All that being said, I am sure a company such as Disney employed engineers to determine the optimal people flow, but I am not convinced that shorter lines were the only variable.

I wonder what the parks would be with zero line skip options. I suspect the overall park experience would improve. You would have two or three long waits, but many would be very short, but what do I know?

I do know I really hate the Six Flags system and simply won’t use it. My favorite system is to stay at the Royal Pacific and use the Unlimited Express Pass. My favorite of the Disney systems was the original fast pass. I took the tickets of all my group and went through the park loading up on passes. With that system we never waited over 30 minutes for anything.

I will say I HATE the phone app. Hate it. The last thing I want to do on vacation is to be glued to a phone. Did I say I hated it?

"As to the lottery and G+, that is different and does not cost extra. That being said, you still have to buy a park ticket, so there is that. It is how I could ride some of those attractions three times a day: two lotteries and one ILL."

How were you able to do that without paying extra? Firstly, the "lottery" (virtual queue) is only available on a couple of attractions (right now it's just Tron and Guardians at WDW), and while there are 2 opportunities to get passes to ride those attractions (at 7 AM and 1 PM), guests are limited to getting just one pass each day. The Individual Lightning Lane (ILL) is a discrete upcharge that guests pay (again for certain high demand attractions) at the time of grabbing one (typically somewhere between $10-20). Just like the "lottery", guests are limited to a single ILL per attraction, which is a completely separate charge from the Genie+ upcharge. Now, you can ride a virtual queue ("lottery") attraction like Tron through the free VQ AND purchase an additional ILL to ride a second time, but that's it, you cannot ride a 3rd time unless you're somehow gaming the system.

Ultimately, the only thing that is truly free (included with admission) is the "lottery", but guests could theoretically spend $50+ each if they purchased Genie+ and ILL for additional high demand attractions or a second spin on a VQ attraction.

I think it would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if Disney went to all standby lines and accurately posted waits on the app. I think people would eventually figure things out for themselves and plan their day around how line lengths fluctuated throughout the day. I do think LL has really disrupted the ability to gauge standby line lengths, and people have lost trust in those estimates. Going to all standby would make those estimates far more reliable (unless there's an attraction breakdown), and it would give guests the power to decide where they want to go instead of being nudged towards certain attractions by Genie.

Maybe I wasn’t clear: two lotteries and one ILL, and I do pay for the ILL. I am not gaming anything as far as I know, and I do not like this method. As I stated I liked the original fast pass. With popular attractions that are not lottery (virtual queue), I will rope drop, Genie+ (LL or ILL) and get in standby at the end of the day. Maybe there was something that allowed the VQ twice a day, but I simply used the app. I seem to recall the park gave us some extra selections when some rides went down, so maybe that it how I did it. I just know we did Guardians and Tron three times. At one point Rise had an unusual less than 30 minute wait.

I am not in favor of the app at all. Like you said, the wait times are over inflated, and I would prefer not to have to check my phone. The Magic Bands were convenient, but I did not like them either other than for a room key or a way to charge for items/food.