Knott's to Require Chaperones for Minors on Weekends

That's a positive step in the right direction. Why not just have those rules in place for every day of the week so that applies to holidays and summer vacation?

I was at Knott’s on July 16 (the day they shut down early due to fights) and I do get that there was a lot a lot of fighting and general unruliness, but this policy seems really harsh.

In high school, my mom used to drop my friends and I off at Knott’s probably every other weekend. My friends and I weren’t trying to do anything than literally just ride the rides and have fun at the park (as you’d expect from someone on this website) and my parents didn’t want to come with us because they had jobs, they didn’t wanna spend money to buy tickets if they weren’t gonna ride every ride with us and, to put it frankly, needing a chaperone to hang out with your friends when you’re aged 14+ just isn’t fun.

If this policy was in place when I started high school, I probably wouldn’t have been able to go to Knott’s nearly as much as I did (I’d probably go once every like 2 years instead of every 2 weeks) and honestly those Knott’s trips were a huge part of my life and they were probably the primary reason I’m a theme park enthusiast today. Like I wouldn’t be writing this comment on this website if this policy was enacted in 2014.

Just my 2 cents I guess.

@ Juan....

Unfortunately, this is a case of "a few bad apples"...Knotts is being proactive, which is a good thing (and going with the 2 busiest days of the week).

The fact that Knotts had to close the park early, cost them significantly, so they are going to act in the best interest of their brand (and limit the financial impact)

While it will sadly will effect those who never did anything wrong, it falls in line with any other type of curfew or age restriction.

Great news but I would have thought that was already the case! These entitled brats don't even buy their own ticket and then ruin the experience of everyone that did.

Totally get that Knott’s is going with the safest possible course of action here. Just a couple of thoughts

-I wanna say 30-40% of the park guests when I was there were unaccompanied teenagers. Most of them probably wouldn’t be there if they needed a chaperone. Isn’t that a big financial hit too (and also something that’s just kind of sad)?
-I definitely feel like Knott’s could’ve handled the fights better. I saw a lot of fights where employees just watched and walked away. Maybe there could be some better park-wide protocols for how to deal with fights (more security, better line of communication for employees to contact security, stricter punishments for fighting/unruliness).

No solution is perfect and maybe this is the best solution possible, but it’s just weird hearing everyone on instagram and other platforms talking about how happy they are about this policy and acting like every teenager is some rowdy kid looking for a fight when I feel like there are definite downsides that aren’t being discussed enough.

You bring up interesting points Juan, but ultimately...this view point of unchaperoned teens (in groups) isn't unique to Knotts. Malls, entertainment districts, etc. have all had similar guidelines in place. Yes, the majority of young people aren't causing problems, but this is a standard practice.

For now, its being implicated Friday & Saturdays...that age group (and pass holders) still have 5 other days to attend unchaperoned. But closing a major park due to fights...is clearly not something Knotts wants (financially) or for the brand. That story was all over SoCal news, so they didn't hesitate.

There are a ton of debates one could introduce, many with merit, but ultimately, as you said, no solution is perfect & this could definitely be one that prevent what happened last week from becoming a regular occurrence.

this is a pretty silly rule and my guess is knott's knows that. beyond the very obvious reasons (it's draconian, knott's has relied on teenagers to make their money and fill their parks for 40 years), there's the practicality of it, too. requiring an ID to buy a theme park ticket is silly and adding another step (checking IDs) to an already painfully slow entry procedure pretty well sums up the operation mindset at knott's.

instead of treating a very bad incident like what it was: a freak occurrence mixed with abysmal crowd control, knott's is deciding to do this. cedar fair can stomach the money lost and knott's can deal with the bad publicity. we're talking about a bunch of teenagers scrapping it out at an Orange County theme park over a *tiktok* video. the 90s, this is not.

knott's is not being proactive — knott's is being conservative. being proactive would involve showing support for their employees and communicating with guests better — things that would have happened long before this incident ever took place. instead, we're doing this. pretty silly.

If anyone is interested in a business opportunity, the "rent-a-chaperone.com" domain name is available.

While most of them don't make the news, the sad truth is that Knott's has been having significantly more guest issues since they reopened from the pandemic closure than they ever had before it. I have my suspicions as to possible causes, but I can't say which may be the biggest contributors. However, based on whispers I've heard, I get the sense this policy is likely to avoid an insurance increase after Saturday's incident, and will likely be a temporary thing until they can increase the size of their security force. It's sad that this policy is needed and I have some questions about how well it will be implemented, but if nothing else it gives them something on record to justify taking action against potentially problematic guests. That said, I personally think a requirement that anyone under 16 have an adult chaperone present in the park during their visit wouldn't be a bad rule for any park to have.

There's been fights breaking out almost weekly at WDW. There was one yesterday at the Magic Kingdom when we were there. It's crazy wherever you go these days.

I'm sick of people just assuming there is a gunman because there is some commotion. I was at Disney Springs that night there was a big stampede and hundreds of cops came rushing over from all over Orlando....just because an old man got angry that his service was slow at Bongo's. It also happened at Lake Eola this year when someone shot off a rogue firework and all of a sudden there are stampedes of people yelling "shooter!!" I'm sure Knotts didn't appreciate the totally false rumors that there was a gunman in the park, even though it was just teenagers fighting, and that may have played into the decision to make this new rule.

Also this really peeves me off that instead of getting their act together and running the park better they are taking this step. Like many of you, I spent way more time than i'd like to admit at parks as a teenager, got my first job working at my local park at age 15, and it was a huge part of my life growing up. My life would have been totally different if my friends and I were not allowed to visit our local park, and if places don't allow young people to go, what do you expect them to do? Sit at home playing video games and eat cheeto's? Also think of how many young enthusiasts get their legs cut out from them with rules like this. There have always been a small minority of people that can't behave its the job of the park to drag them out and kick them to the curb so the people that are there can continue on with their day.

As a society, we just can't have nice things because those on the fringe are bound to ruin it for the majority. It's an increasing theme across not just theme parks but across all aspects of life where small groups of people are hijacking the interests of the majority.

Ultimately, it only takes 1 person to ruin things for everyone, and it's becoming increasingly common to see society change processes to compensate for that 1 moron. That's exactly what Knott's is doing here, and sadly aside from tripling their security force and/or stereotyping guests solely based on their looks (something very passé in today's society), this ID policy is probably their most effective tool to combat the recent violence.

To AJ's point, this is definitely something I've observed recently, and my theory is that the months of pandemic shutdown and enforced social distancing shortly thereafter caused many people to forget how to behave in a crowded public setting. We spent so much time forced to be apart and then being given extra space when we started getting back together that many can no longer handle being in a crowd or being forced to wait for something because of another person standing in front of them. I thought this phenomenon would eventually vanish as places got more and more crowded and we got more accustomed to being should to shoulder with our fellow humans, but is seems that it's still happening and in some cases increasing, likely because of the "kid-gloves" approach so many security and police forces are being mandated to follow due to other concerns from the society at large. Unfortunately, I think until there is a major catastrophe that snaps society back into line, we will continue to see events like this and security/police will be forced to stand by and watch simply to protect themselves.

Russell, I agree completely.
Like they say, Play Stupid Games…Get Stupid Prizes.

Moral values seem to be disintegrating worldwide and Knott's is only trying to do the best they can to deal with a bad situation.

And it continues:

A video has made the rounds showing the brawl at Magic Kingdom within Fantasyland. Between that, this, and Sesame Place, it’s been a rough week for theme parks and media coverage.

@ James, that's true..

Cedar Fair, Disney,& SeaWorld Parks, all in a single week. Who would've thought??!!

And the fact that Six Flags would've been considered a shoe in for this sort of coverage!!

I mean, every week I see an article in the paper about the mental health crisis among teenagers and young kids. It's not just that the quarantine put a zap on their minds, desocializing them and making them more dependent on screens than ever, but also because our country is currently a terrible place to live. My elementary school kids have to do active shooter drills every couple of month, and every week they hear about another mass shooting, they are terrified (and we thankfully live in a blue state where we're largely free from the evil of guns). Racism and bullying are at a modern high; one of our political parties is now proudly white nationalist; the supreme court recently stripped women and girls of personal autonomy over their bodies. It's a madhouse, and hard to see how any reasonable person could be comfortable with our trajectory.

So I strongly disagree there is some slide in values or morals, or that these were bad kids. If anything it's amazing the resilience our young people have showed in living through these hateful, idiotic times.

Requiring chaperones is a good compromise. Maybe if the rabble rousers have to miss a few weeks of fun at the park, that natural consequence of their behavior will cause them to straighten up.

Edit: Of course, a huge part of the problem is that many American adults have lost their minds, just see the footage of the family attacking other people at Walt Disney world today.

I'll also note that the prevalence and fame that comes from recording these incidents has started to establish societal norms. It's like people didn't get the moral of the story from the Seinfeld finale. I have no doubt that these incidents are occurring more frequently for a myriad of reasons, but they're more widely publicized because bystanders are recording them and placing them in a public forum. While I don't expect an average visitor to step into a fight or situation where it's clear someone is being discriminated or hurt, but why is recording the incident the go-to reaction instead of alerting authorities or immediately bringing the situation to the attention of park operators?

Not only are people recording the incidents, but they're posting them in public forums and on social media instead of providing that footage directly to interested parties (police, park security, park operators, etc...). While I think it's good for the public to see these events and the risks that exist in seemingly safe places, but the parks and authorities responsible for public safety should have some say in how they are presented and make proactive changes instead of being blindsided by a viral video that may have otherwise been recorded as a minor incident.

This mob mentality that takes over when videos enter cyberspace doesn't do ANYONE any good. Despite how bad something looks, people should still be given due process, yet the internet trolls and associated mobs of juries and executioners adjudicate incidents with such certainty and extreme prejudice, All the while the bystander filming and publicly posting the incident (undoubtedly boosting their social media following and popularity) is not held to the same moral or ethical standards as those directly involved in the incident.

@russell Good points. Also, the videos consistently show that Disney security is lackluster at best. I think many of us, myself included, wrongly believe that Disneyland is like a casino, with security behind every door just waiting to spring if anything goes wrong. But these videos show security is largely non-existent, and usually takes minutes to appear, only then not to do much of anything.

I mean, aren't you amazed at how long these fights continue without being stopped by security? Imagine if the problem was something more dangerous!

The fights are a bad look; the videos are a bad look; the slow, middling response of the parks is a bad look.

That's an interesting take. I think Disney's security response is adequate, though it might be more rapid if people would report incidents immediately instead of pulling out their phone to film for TikTok. Disney parks are massive complexes, and aside from stores and the front gates, there aren't many other permanent security posts around the parks. I was never under the impression that Disney security was lurking around every corner ready to pounce on hooligans and disruptors. There's also the fact that security forces (and police) have their hands tied these days because of recent events stemming from excessive use of force. Using brute force has to be the absolute last tool in their toolbox, and their interests have to be in keeping outsiders from getting hurt during incidents more so than trying to separate combatants.

So between the time it takes for bystanders or CMs to notify the park of incidents, the time it takes for security to respond and arrive at the scene and assess the situation, and the time it takes for them to protect guests not involved, you're looking at a pretty significant period where guests can do some serious damage to each other and those around them.

Aside from posting security around every corner at great cost, and making a theme park feel more like a prison, there's really not much that can be done. However, posting and allowing videos to go viral doesn't really improve the situation, because not only do the idiots fighting look like morons, but the fools standing idly by filming the incident look like stooges, and the park looks like a warzone with no control over the area within its gates. Everybody loses because of the actions of a selfish few, but it's the actions of the videographers capturing and posting these salacious events for their own personal benefit who are the real fire starters, and should be as accountable and punishable as those directly involved in the incidents.

Well said. Can you imagine being at Disneyland and stopping to film a fight? That's why you go to Disneyland, to visit a place where that kind of idiotic behavior isn't suppose to happen.

And pay all that money to get in, only to fight and get yourself thrown out and banned? Unbelievable dumb.

Disney has lots of security people wandering the park, especially around the front entrance area, mainly as a deterrent to terrorists and other nefarious behavior.

In regards to breaking up fights they are told not to, their job is basically to keep people away from the fighting until the police arrive (which is pretty common for security people anywhere you go).

More good guys with guns - that’ll solve the problem ! I mean every bad guy was obviously born bad …

While I concur that it can be incredibly annoying to see people gawk and scramble to film incidents rather than to help remedy the situation, I also have to acknowledge the vast number of injustices that have been brought to light in recent years because there were in fact people there to film these events and then post them. In a theme park such as Magic Kingdom where so much of your day’s enjoyment now hinges upon the ability to manage your phone, asking a park to mitigate the filming of these incidents is flat-out impossible. It’s rubber-neck syndrome in real-time. Many people suffer from the same thing that a toddler does with FOMO (fear of missing out), only for them it seems it’s FONC (fear of not capturing). “Hey guys check this out! We were walking though Fantasyland and then THIS happened! Crazy right!?!”
I’m not sure what the solution to this quandary would be and I can’t posit one myself. I’m merely suggesting that the filming and posting of real-world content as it happens is a line in the sand we crossed quite some time back. It does warrant a great discussion though and the above posters made some very salient points. At what point does filming for enjoyment cross the line over to irresponsible inaction or out and out voyeurism? And a what point is a park responsible (if it all) for curbing this behavior?

Bystanders who gawk and film -- that's "diffusion of responsibility," in which each person in the crowd assumes *someone else* is addressing the crisis.

Given the fraction of the crowd carrying the Disney app, maybe Disney can incentivize action by gamifying/crowdsourcing it? Punch a prominent alarm button, specify kind of emergency (armed attack/fight/injury), and it's reported with location to security personnel, who respond upon critical mass ("there have been 5...8...11... reports in the past 40...50...60... seconds at location X"). Something like 911, something like Waze traffic updates. You earn a "good citizen" digital badge for reporting, but (given the incentive to lie) only *after* the incident has been verified.

Have Americans forgotten how to behave in crowds? I'm reminded of "The Simpsons" episode in which Marge and Homer are required to take remedial good-parenting classes ("put the trash in a trash can, don't just throw it out the window"). Disney could require visitors to take pre-arrival training and attest to it, or (in bite-size chunks) make use of queue-time by airing good-citizen infomercials; intrusive, yes, but precedent is the videos in TSA security lines, and safety briefings aboard airliners. (There were country-rube bad-behavior horror stories when Shanghai Disneyland opened; how did *they* handle their situation? China and U.S., different social contexts, but still...)

EDIT: To be clear, crowdsourcing shouldn't be the *entirety* of a park's security strategy, but the fraction that *is* must have safeguards against false alarms. I'm a software guy, but this isn't the right forum for a detailed software design.

A fight (and a panic that there was a shooter) broke out at Universal Citywalk in Orlando Saturday night. Fight was between teens.

*extremely Helen Lovejoy voice*

won't somebody please think of the teens

This policy is DRACONIAN HARSH. KNOTT’S Berry Farm prefers to alienate everyone under 18 rather than hire sufficient security. Punish those that cause the problems. Not those that are not.

@MarkNoonan - I would agree, but unfortunately there's no way to identify which teenagers are going to cause problems before they enter the park, so the only solution is to ensure teens that do show up are properly chaperoned. Sadly this is the way our society as a whole works because we reject the concept of profiling, and cannot simply weed out the bad apples from the bunch.

What Knott's has done is definitely draconian, but it's necessary for them to be proactive to prevent further incidents.

I disagree that it's necessary — they're choosing to do it because they feel it best mitigates their risk (the insurance theory is a good one). As I've reflected on this more, I think it's worth mentioning that while these incidents make great headlines and Are Not Good ... they're also exceptionally rare (at least, I define them as rare ... your mileage may certainly vary).

Simply coming out with a strong statement, banning the guests involved for [insert time year] and reinforcing that they'll support guests and team members may very well have been enough ... and prevented them from alienating the guests (including the parents of the guests) that have been caught up in this wide net. Of course, Knott's (well, Cedar Fair) disagrees. Fair enough. I think it's probably important to note that this sort of thing (teenagers getting into fights ... anywhere) is not exactly new. What is new, as always, is our ability to see all of them.

Kids got into fights when I was in high school, even at Disneyland. They certainly did it when I worked at Disneyland. I venture a guess that they did it when y'all were high schoolers, too. While this moment might feel worse, I contend that doesn't exactly make it worse. None of this has made me less likely to go to Knott's, Universal Studios or Disneyland any time soon. Again, your mileage may vary.

Mark Noonan: "This policy is DRACONIAN HARSH. KNOTT’S Berry Farm prefers to alienate everyone under 18 rather than hire sufficient security. Punish those that cause the problems. Not those that are not."

Me: How is going to a theme park with a chaperone constitute a punishment? The attractions and park entertainment are still available. The restaurants are still open. What activity would these kids lose out on if they were accompanied by an adult?