Are Disney Fans' Star Wars Complaints on Target?

people love capitalism right until they don't

I could make a business out of printing that statement on T-shirts. /s

I'll bet that, sooner or later, Disney will offer a more affordable one-day version of this experience.

I saw today where theaters in LA are charging slightly more to see the new Batman movie. Soon you'll pay $10 or $20 more to sit in the middle of the theater.

I was a middle class kid and my family would go stay at the contemporary hotel for five nights. Now the bill would be more than your mortgage.

Remember going to concerts? Now the floor seats are $500, and the poors sit waaaay up there, if they can even afford to enter.

Every day in every way the gulf between the rich and the poor grows wider, with a growing majority of us effectively shut out of experiences we could previously enjoy. The rich now thumb their noses at us, whistling dixie as they not only skip the line at Disneyland, but make the rest of us wait longer as a result.

When things get bad enough the lower classes will rise up and we'll have a revolution, that's how it works. If the planet remains livable, that is. Otherwise the rich will be in space, and in Antarctica, and the rest of us will be in Mad Max world. Good times ahead!

Park prices are a pain point for Disney fans. I feel like Disney is trying to target a different audience, the very wealthy kind of audience. We do need some cheaper replacement for that like compatible toner cartridge

Whenever this type of question comes up (parks being only for the rich) it always reminds me of Jurassic Park when the lawyer says they can charge whatever they want and people will pay it.... and he is right, people are paying it.

The rest of it when Hammond says it should be everyone and the lawyer suggest 'coupon day' and they laugh.... this is Disney, they tell the world that this is a park for everyone while they laugh at the idea

The question of 'value' as opposed to 'cost' and 'affordability' is a tricky one. Premium experiences cost money to cerate and to operate and why should there be an imperative that everything must be 'affordable'? Is it wrong that Aston Martins cost hundreds of thousands and are 'unaffordable' to most people?

The same applies to leisure and holidays. I would love to go to the Maldives but I can't afford it. I enjoy cruising and would love to sample one of the ultra-luxury cruise lines. But they are way out of my price league. some things are just beyond the reach of most ordinary people. Hell I was pricing up a two week stay at Disney World recently and prices were ranging from around £1300 ($1700) for Pop Century through to well over £10,000 ($13,300) for the Yacht and Beach Club resorts. That's room only!

I am constantly surprised at how much 'ordinary' people will spend on an attraction or an experience. Here in north Wales where I live we have the fastest Zip wire in the world (and one of the longest). It's a 90 second ride (spun out over 90 minutes with the build-up) and a family of 4 will pay between £300 to £340 ($400 - $450) for that 90 seconds. And yet it's regularly fully booked.

I guess my point is that there's no point complaining about the cost or the exclusivity or the fact that for most people it will remain nothing more than an aspiration or dream. WE all have choice as to what to spend our money on and all of us have to accept that there are lots of cool things and stuff that we simply can't and never will be able to afford.

It's worth considering, though, how much of this exclusivity really comes from "cost to operate" and "cost to manufacture" and how much is manufactured exclusivity that we accept because of marketing or simply because we really enjoy the product. A lot of carbon fiber gives its life for the Porsche 911 you see the richer, better-looking neighbor drive down the highway but ultimately it doesn't cost substantially more to produce than a Chevrolet Corvette. But Porsche makes fewer of them and it takes longer to produce them (blah, blah, blah) and the company can charge more.

There may have been a point in time when what something cost followed a (relatively) predictable formula of parts x labor, but that's hardly the case anymore. Disney is not charging $6,000 per room because this is an expensive operation, but the company would certainly like you to think that. Its labor force remains cheap and mostly near minimum wage while it charges a high-dollar amount based on the exclusivity of its product. Like Robert said, this is the only place you can get this kind of experience. It's non-fungible, so they can charge a price completely untethered from the cost of doing business.

I think that's what bums me out the most of all these discussions. I'm numb to the costs of all these things, but I know at the end of the day the people doing all the work to make them happen aren't seeing any of the money. It's all being dumped back into the shareholders pockets. Sigh.

I wanted to wait until I saw the influencers and social media darlings comments, which I knew would be completely biased, then compare them to paying customers.

I will say, I am one of the rare people who loves Star Wars in reverse order, so I would prefer this over the episodes 4-6.

That being said, everything I have seen so far is complete cringe. I actually feel uncomfortable for the people forced to endure that dinner show. Secondly, no one is being "immersed" in the story. Every... single... person is recording everything all the time.

These videos are really tough to watch, and the paid shills are all being called out for their forced "awesome" reviews. All of them must have been briefed by Disney to use certain buzzwords, because they all sound like Stepford Wives.

I will give credit to TPI, as the review was more objective then most. Most pixie dusters sold their souls to Disney on that free media preview.

This thole thing seems like it should be a free show in the parks where you sit down to eat and drink, like a dinner show with bad dialogue.

thecolonel - You just described the plot for the movie Elysium... which I actually love. The "habitat" orbiting earth has an atmosphere and beautiful, perfectly manicured landscapes and homed for the uber rich.

I have one problem with Disney's seemingly obvious ploy to attract more affluent guests and eliminate the average Joe. They seem to all be flocking to Universal, and that is a problem for me. The parks are now packed during weeks that were historically slow. I see videos of UOR every day, and it doesn't even look fun anymore. Just and endless sea of people and way more strollers than ever before.

I think there are a lot of factors at play here. In general, I think there is a general distaste among Disney (and other theme park) fans as prices for EVERYTHING has skyrocketed in recent years. There was already a general sentiment that Disney's products are overpriced, and the company takes flak every single time prices go up. Hypocritically, the same people who complain about increasing prices lobby for increased wages for CMs which are driving a lot of these increased prices.

Now, I do think that Disney has made a habit recently of increasing prices while at the same time diminishing the experiences, but given the significant business complications brought on by the pandemic necessitates a give and take that customers need to accept. Ultimately, we can complain to the heavens about prices and perceived reductions in quality, but as long as people keep buying Disney products and experiences, these changes won't stop.

I feel that the biggest insult is the recent change from Disney to start nickel and diming guests. The introduction of Genie+, elimination of Magical Express and free MagicBands, and other minor changes to operational procedures have turned what was an inclusive experience into more of an a la carte one where guests now have to pay for individual products that used to be part of a WDW vacation. It is very much like what the airline industry did in the late 90's, and because of those moves, airlines are some of the lowest rated businesses in the country, but most have survived because few options are available when you need to travel long distances or to other continents. Disney was one of the highest rated businesses in the world in an industry where customers have dozens of other options to turn to. Will these recent operational changes impact the way customers view the company, or are there enough fans that feel that a Disney vacation is "essential", making them more willing to deal with changes that would significantly diminish regular customers' view of the company? The recent crowds, whether driven by pent up demand from the pandemic or not, show that the price increases are not affecting the demand for a WDW vacation.

I made a comparison earlier about this experience to other VIP-style and exclusive experiences that Disney offers. I'll make some of those again here...

If I was paying for my family (3 adults - Zach at 12 years old is considered an adult in Disney's eyes now) for a voyage on the Galactic Starcruiser, it would cost @$5,300 (pricing varies by season and demand). Since I would consider this as much of an experience/attraction as it is a hotel and restaurant, I think it's better to assess it based on a cost per person per hour. We boarded the Starcruiser around 1:30 (guests can board as early as 1 PM on Day 1), and disembarked on Day 3 shortly after 9 AM (guests must check out by 10 AM on Day 3). That means we were on the ship for a total of 43.5 hours, which could be as much as 45 hours. During the experience, we slept for a total of @6 hours each night, but even if you sleep for 8 hours, the total experience time would be 29 hours from start to finish. If you calculate the total cost per person per hour, each guest would be paying $60.92 per hour for this experience. When you look at it from those terms, it doesn't seem that expensive. There are plenty of exclusive and VIP theme park experiences that are in that same range, and of course a VIP tour (plaid jacket) of WDW ranges from $425-850/hour for up to 10 guests ($42.50-$85 per person per hour). An RIP Tour at USF's HHN costs starting at $199/person and as much as $369/person for @5 hours of entertainment, which again is in that same ballpark as the Galactic Starcruiser.

You also need to look at Disney costs associated with the project, and while I despise companies that think they should make up their R&D and investment costs within the first 2-3 years of operation, companies need to have some reasonable return on investment to make an ambitious project like this. While development of the Galactic Starcruiser shared investment with Galaxy's Edge, which undoubtedly streamlined some its costs, there are tons of other unique development costs associated with this project. Obviously the building, technology, concept design, and overall development of the experience took tens of thousands of hours and millions of dollars in materials. I wouldn't be surprised if the total development cost of this project was as much as a quarter billion dollars. You then need to consider the operational cost of this experience, which employs hundreds of CMs, loads of tech, and all that food, which is included in the price. Running this experience isn't cheap, and when Disney has to pay all those bills, they still need to cover the costs of developing and building this experience as well as continuing costs to allow it to evolve over time.

On the surface, the price does seem absurdly high, but is not as obscene as you might think. I do think it's frustrating that more and more investment is being directed towards experiences and attractions designed for guests with money to burn, but what do you expect a massive corporation like Disney to do? They're not in business to give away stuff for free, and innovation and investment is only going to get done if there's a financial benefit, so an ambitious, complicated experience like this is going to be expensive in order to offset the high cost of development and execution. Galaxy's Edge is still part of the standard theme park experience, and is one of the best themed areas ever built. Certainly guests can feel slighted that some of the aspects promised in Galaxy's Edge appears to have been put behind the paywall of the Galactic Starcruiser, but that should not diminish what already exists in Disneyland and DHS.

Despite being a massive Star Wars fan, my opinion has changed slightly. At first I was extremely negative. I now really don’t care, as the experience does not seem to be something I would want to do. So they could charge $100 a day or $5000 dollars a day. It just doesn’t interest me. After reading the reviews, I bet it would make many people very happy, so if they are good with paying for it, I hope they have a great time.

The cost of running this must be great, but they are clearly making money off it. What Disney did historically is move to an all included price. You pay one cost for all rides. When this trend slowly changed, like when Six Flags charged extra for that bungee sling thing, I go annoyed. I do not like being nickel and dimed, but that is where the industry is. If they do it to me, I usually will do other things on vacation, but if demand is high, higher prices are a result.

My hope is they make so much money off of it that they use some of that to curtail wait times elsewhere, which is really all I care about, but that is just me.

The final question- if they gave it to my family for free would I do it? I don’t know. What I would like to see is that for some random guests that indicate they like Star Wars that they select one family to attend it for free that have a booked space at another hotel. I know they did this for the suite at the castle at WDW for a time.

@JC - FYI, Disney did give a bunch of Make a Wish families a vacation on the Galactic Starcruiser last week before the first official public voyage on Tuesday. They also ran a couple of contests last fall to win a trip on the Halcyon, and I would expect they will use the experience in future promotions and sweepstakes like they did with the Cinderella's Castle Suite.

Also, DVC members can trade in points for a voyage on the Starcruiser. While the exchange rate is extraordinarily high, there are many DVC owners who are leveraging their investment for a trip on this pretty exclusive experience.

Intriguing discussions. As a frugal person who hates paying more for a pizza than I have to, I agree that the costs can be extreme and Disney always charging more than they have to for anything from bottled water to gifts. I've long been used to that but agree it seems to be getting worse lately.

For this, yes, that price is pretty wild and frankly never been a fan personally of the "immersive trip" experiences like others. I have been on cruises which charge for "add-on" bits like a zip line or a tour so Disney just following a trend there. However, Disney really should have had a better grasp for the bad PR of this and the backlash growing so while this looks like a fun experience for some, knocking a few grand off the price would have helped some of the perception.

That's an issue, Disney seems to be going too far in changes in a time folks wanted a return to some normalcy. For me, as much of a Star Wars fan as I am, this was never going to be something I wanted to be on but that high cost is a blow against the fans who might want to try it. That Disney doesn't seem to realize that is a mistake.

Then again, hardly the first time they've made such errors. On the Imagineering doc series, Eisener is frank talking on mistakes of Euro Disney like thinking folks waned multiple nights and so built so many resorts at once "that was dumb." It does marvel how a company that generally does PR so well can still make some major boo-boos.

knott's berry farm pays its employees $14 an hour.
disneyland pays its lowest wage employees $15 an hour.

go ahead and look at ticket prices (yes, even the discounted tickets available through TPI partners).

what you are paying at theme parks are not tethered to what these enormous corporations are paying to their lowest-wage workers. it is, however, politically expedient for you to think that it is. when thinking about "value," it's pointless to think about how much steel, cement and sweat it took to build a place. it is not 1955. we're in the endgame now -- do you think this experience is going to be $6,000 worth of fun? do you have enough money to blow on $6,000 of fun?

that's the "value" judgment you're making at this point. this isn't an experience i'd spend that kind of money on and I'm skeptical that there are enough people who will to make this viable. we'll see!

While the cost of this experience is grossly inflated and beyond the means of many, including myself, it's also a question of comparative value. For the same price or slightly more I could spend a week in the UK or buy a used car. Either of those would be significantly more valuable to me.

I totally agree with the above points. I do think it is a mistake to charge what they have. I am very glad they are offering for free to some. I will say I love the food at WDW. Love it. But I am always going to only visit when they throw in the dining plan “for free.” The only thing I had to pay for was souvenirs. Of course now there is no Magical Express and you have to pay to park. That has made it a much easier decision to do something else for vacation.

I also don’t do cruises. I want to go to a location and fully immerse myself in it. I also will not have a situation when I have a massive tab at the end. But I also don’t dress up and cosplay either, so the Star Wars hotel has zero allure for me, yet I am such a big Star Wars fan that I can tell you the Death Star trash compactor door number by memory.

"what you are paying at theme parks are not tethered to what these enormous corporations are paying to their lowest-wage workers."

I don't agree. As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats, and while there may not be a direct correlation between the percent increase in minimum wages and the price of a product, increased labor costs are certainly driving many of the price increases we are seeing across the economy. While lower wage employees may have seen paychecks increase 30%, mid-level employees also saw noticeable raises to maintain the necessary differential between different job categories. You can't have an entry-level CM going from making $10-12/hour to $15/hour and then have their supervisor's wage remain stagnant at $18/hour. So while wages at the bottom end of the spectrum increased the most, the impacts of these changes were felt up and down the corporate ladder.

There's also something to be said for the supply chain issues, which are wreaking havoc with virtually every industry. This has caused certain products to cost more because different, and sometimes more expensive, materials are needed or more expensive sources are tapped to produce products. Certain construction materials have increased 10-fold (particularly plywood and some steel products) in just the past 6 months.

When you have a finite budget for a project, those increased material (and labor) costs have to come from somewhere. Either the budget needs to be increased, which requires an offsetting source of revenue (higher consumer prices or lowering reducing profits/i.e. write-off) or removing costly aspects of the final product (taking away features of the project or lowering quality). Contrary to what some may believe, Disney does not have infinite resources, and certainly won't allow a project to run seriously into the red without solid prospects that it will eventually turn a profit. The increased labor and material costs are absolutely driving the increasing prices for Disney's products. It may not be a 1 to 1 correlation, but there is definitely a cause and effect relationship.

Everything is life is worth what people are willing to pay.

-Right now, Galactic Starcruiser is booked solid through the end of may and over half of June is booked.

-Those $500 floor seats for those bands you could have seen in the 80s for under $20? They're sold out.

-$1000 lower deck seats for the NFL game against your team's rival to pay the millionaire athletes and billionaire owners? Gone.

-$250,000 a seat tickets to space? Maybe you can catch a flight in a couple of years.

The list goes on and on.

We hear enjoy entertainment. I dare say we enjoy more than just theme park entertainment. With so many entertainment offers becoming more expensive, many of us are part of the problems since we continue to pay the ever increasing prices for parks, sports, movies, theater, concerts, etc.

What I find ironic is that everyone here, and numerous other theme park observers around the world, knew that the Galactic Starcruiser was going to be an expensive experience when Disney officially announced it. Yet, so many were utterly indignant when Disney actually put a price tag on this experience, which was undoubtedly determined through months of careful study and guest surveys. We were all throwing out the $1-2k per night price tags long before Disney even broke ground on this, yet are surprised that Disney would actually have the nerve to charge those kind of prices for an experience that is pretty darn close to what they promised.

At this point Disney World is basically a status symbol.

Several people have raised the argument that as long as people keep paying these prices, the price is right. If it was too expensive, people wouldn't go.

But as someone mentioned, Disney isn't the airlines, people have other choices. And charging people more and more for less and less only breeds the same ill will the airlines are experiencing.

Goodwill is a funny thing--you have it until you don't. And sure, lots of families are paying these exorbitant prices and making the best of it, but how many of those families are moving from three trips a year to one? I know mine has.

Just because they can gouge customers doesn't mean they should, and just because people are willing to be extorted doesn't mean they will continue to do. Everyone can see that Disney is taking advantage of them, fleecing parents who are just trying to make their kids happy. Businesses like that treat their customers so poorly will eventually be brought to bear.

I won't jump into the scrum assessing the product under discussion.

But ...

First, Russell's coverage is some of the very best on the web. Period. He has NEVER been a blind Disney loyalist ("drone"). His objectivity is unassailable.

Second, when Russell notes, "Running this experience isn't cheap, and when Disney has to pay all those bills, they still need to cover the costs of developing and building this experience as well as continuing costs to allow it to evolve over time" the point he makes is VERY POWERFUL. It's as if he is contending "the only alternative to the pricing is to not develop and offer the experience at all."

It is ridiculous to think Disney priced this Galactic Cruiser at such a level that it will have a substantial impact on its quarterly numbers. The overhead is weighty, to be sure. It's ashame all of us can't afford the experience. But I'd find it VERY DUBIOUS (at best) if someone claims Disney launched the concept with the idea they'd be raking it in.

One last thing. There is a cottage industry of hateful vlogger/bloggers who do nothing but bash Disney because it generates clicks. This TPI community (OUR COMMUNITY) has consistently offered the most thoughtful perspectives on this and other themed entertainment topics. And yeah, we unload on each other every once in awhile ... But that's what siblings do.

Russell, you ROCK!

I just can't escape the fact that a lot of Disney fans feel like they have earned the privilege or feel obligated to bask in anything Disney related for a price point they feel comfortable with. Even though I'm not into the SW franchise outside of Mandalorian, if I was and couldn't afford it, there's happiness in other places.

There are some things completely missing from all the videos I have seen posted from the GSH. Ambience being one of them. Dead silence, super bright lighting and long pauses when these "confrontations" are taking place, the bright lighting in the dining hall when Gaia is walking around singing, where it should be dim like the quickly removed promo video showed. They should be following her with a spotlight to make it more authentic and dramatic.

Sitting at the Three Broomsticks or Leaky Cauldron at Universal eating that average and overpriced breakfast food is more immersive than what I've seen from the GSH, in my opinion. WWoHP nailed with subtle music loops and lighting in every corner of the lands.

Everything (except the rooms, of course) should be in Galaxy's Edge, and I thought I read somewhere that is was going to be, until they decided to put it behind a $5000 paywall.

"I'll bet that, sooner or later, Disney will offer a more affordable one-day version of this experience." - Not when the egos of Chapek and Kennedy are involved.

Disney wanted "immersion" and all they got was people filming every second for social media. That alone will make me angry if I paid for this experience. $5000 to watch other people pointing their phones at everything that happens. Nobody is LARPing like they hoped.

Potterheads are insane, and a fully immersive hotel would attract fully dressed and obsessed fans who would pay whatever they asked. That being said, I think it would still just be a bunch of people filming everything every second for clicks, likes, and views.

I am fairly sure I read JK Rowling once said there will never be an HP themed hotel anywhere.

@NB - I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but many of your notes miss the mark or at the very least highly exaggerated.

1. Theatrical lighting is used during Gaya's Day 1 dinner performance. You're accurate in stating that there is no spotlight following the diva as she sings around the room, but aside from changing the design of the space, I'm not sure how they would execute that. The ceilings are purposely not vaulted to maintain the illusion that you're on a starship where space is at a premium, so there's no practical way to spotlight a character walking around the room. I suppose they could use an actor (playing a groupie/assistant-like character) walking around perpetually holding a spotlight on Gaya, which would actually accentuate Gaya's diva character (similar to Chris Tucker's Ruby Rhod from the Fifth Element), but it might be a bit much here. The lighting still needs to be sufficient to see what you're eating, especially since the food is as much of a show as Gaya's performance. I can attest that the lighting during dinner is not bright when the performance starts, because I had to use auxiliary lighting to capture images of the dishes.

2. I didn't really talk about this, but unlike Galaxy's Edge, music plays a big role on the Galactic Starcruiser. There is actual background music throughout the experience including familiar melodies from the movies. The original songs for Gaya's performance are really good with some very catchy tunes, though one Gaya song has been playing in Oga's since Galaxy's Edge opened demonstrating that Imagineers had already laid the foundation for this experience years before its debut.

3. There are plenty of guests LARPing. I think your impressions are being skewed by the media voyage where Disney deliberately invited social media influencers and You-Tube based fan outlets. Images and reviews from guests taking the first 2 paid voyages thus far (the second voyage is on Day 2 right now) show numerous guests in full costume and role playing in the experience.

You're absolutely right about JK Rowling and past statements where she nixed any chance of a Harry Potter Hotel, but anything can be had for a price, which is why I mentioned the idea with a cost caveat. I also think that with the Galactic Starcruiser as a working prototype, other designers could point to this experience as an example of what could be done with other IPs to address reservations rights holders would have with a hotel-style experience.

This has nothing to do with affordability of the parks. This is an upscale add-on experience, and, clearly, could not even exist if people didn't pay a premium to experience it. And, quite frankly, it doesn't appeal to everyone, regardless of cost. Not everyone wants to work that hard on vacation, as if you were a character on-set in a movie.

I won't complain about the increase in prices as long as the quality of the experiences and services increase along with it. It's logical to assume that price and quality would have a direct relationship but in Disney's case it doesn't, it's actually been the opposite. The quality of the parks has been decreasing and CM cheerful and friendly interactions are a thing of the past (at least for me).

Now this is an entirely different experience and from what I've seen and it seems to be worth the cost. Disney isn't targeting everyone for this experience, that's why it barely has any rooms. I just hope they don't start cutting costs in this experience to save more money.

Russel, I appreciate the reply and the corrections. Maybe it is just the videos I'm seeing posted and can't hear subtle audio.

It seems like JK will let the HP name be slapped on anything, so I'm not sure what her hang up with a hotel would be, if done correctly. I know she would have the last say in every detail, like the WWoHP at UOR.

I see what you are saying about being able to see while eating, but we literally go to a local theater where you eat and drink on a bar style counter while watching and it's dark as midnight in there. The ambient light from the screen is enough to see, but definitely not if you want to post pics of that food on social media, which I'm sure is what they want everyone to do.

I saw the videos of peoples experiences. I simply wouldn't enjoy it so no amount of dollars would get me to go. You really have to be into larping. It has no appeal for me. I am more in thee category of 1 trip every 3.5 years. I will be changing that to 4.5/5 years

NB I think you are correct - this isn’t an overnight attraction, but what do I know ? Maybe we can talk about D’s line management or icebreaker height restrictions again instead !

It’s clear it this experience is a lot better than expected, the early marketing fails we’re just that.

But the price is still obscene. Yes, I get that this is unlike anything else out there - an escape room you essentially live in for 2 days, but that money can buy a weeks cruise, or a pretty long stay at WDW, or some extensive work on the house.

As interested as I am, it’s still a hard no from me. The “opportunity cost” of spending that much on 2 days entertainment can’t be justified.

It is abundantly clear that Disney doesn't understand Star Wars fans.

It's arguable that George Lucas didn't understand Star Wars fans either. Also, does Disney even understand Disney fans, let alone Star Wars fans? The only thing Disney understands about its fans is how to extract maximum revenue out of them, which ultimately is why Disney remains a very profitable and successful enterprise.

You know who would have been great to advise on this project? Actual Star Wars fans or Lucas himself.

You know who signed off on every detail of WWoHP at UOR? The person who wrote the stories. This is the difference in theming and experience.