Is Disney's Genie Smarter Than Disneyland Fans?

Until Covid, my wife and I have been Passholders since 2000 and averaged about five trips per year to orlando. I've been in the vacation club since 2010 (Wish I had bought in earlier).

These just comes across as yet another money grab. The prices have escalated so much and every year it just gets worse. It used to be spontaneous trips and half the time we wouldn't even call looking for a hotel until we were on the road to orlando. Now you have to book reservations for restaurants a month in advance and the last version of fastpass also made you book things far in advance to have any chance of getting the best rides.

They're pushing the 'this will make it more spontaneous', but maybe I'm just too cynical and think it's a money grab masquerading as a benefit. I'm not going to go back until I feel safe with Covid, but I think my days of 5 or 6 trips a year to disney are over and I'll start going to the smaller parks instead.

Robert wrote: "Sure, you can try for Rise's free virtual queue. But if you do not get in, you can buy your way in on the final day of your visit..."

Not necessarily. There's no guarantee you can buy your way in. The ride's capacity is limited. Not everyone who wants to experience it will be able to, paid or not. I'll bet that if the regular Boarding Groups are all gone within 30 seconds, then the LL slots will sell out within a few minutes.

Beacher, that's an interesting thought. But I suspect that the variable pricing might keep that from happening too quickly, though.

There's much left to be seen here. But I wanted to provide a less hysterical voice of analysis than others have been providing. This might just work out okay. Yeah, it might fail miserably, but it might work. Let's see.

Not sure what the ROTR queue statuses are at Disneyland, but for the past week, boarding groups have been available beyond 2pm, some people even getting them as late as 3pm.

Of course we are in changing times with kids returning to schools and colleges, and seemingly the COVID cabin fever slowly fading into the sunset.

I’m hoping for a quiet first 3 weeks of September, before the proverbial hits the fan with Oct 1st looming.

I suspect queues will be longer in 2022 than 2021 when there was no fastpass, but not as long as 2019 queues. Everyone has access to FP+ for free, but not everyone will buy Genie+. I suspect local AP holders (soon to be Disney Key holders) will not buy Genie+ every visit (if at all) and losing their expertise in gaming the system will open the headliner’s Lightning Lanes upnsomewhat.

I fully expect RotR will have more than enough Lightning Lane pay-per-rise passes available for anyone willing to pay the price. There will still be a few free ones available, I’m sure, but there is no way that Disney isn’t going to cash in on this. The question will be what is the right price for them to maximize profits (and that price will likely change from day-to-day and maybe even minute-to-minute. But again, the ride may open up a bit because AP holders visiting either of the parks with RotR will not being willing to pay for it on every visit where now they know exactly how and when to increase there chances at obtaining a boarding pass right now

Interesting to note that, today with an extremely small crowd at Hollywood Studios, RotR boarding groups were still available at 6 p.m.! True story, unless the app was on the fritz. The ride was running quite well and they were calling BG 170 at 6 p.m.

@TwoBits … don’t like AP’s then ???

We will still be able to “game the system” it’ll just take us a while to figure it out. Took me c3 months to “game” the FP+ system, so we’ll see how it works out.

Don’t forget the ROTR virtual boarding system will still be in place, so it’s something AP’s won’t need to worry about. And, Remy will, I suspect, use the exact same system. Of course that’ll mean for all those hoping for park hopping to be available all day, their dreams and wishes will be dashed.

I got group 172 at 3:30pm yesterday. And for those that don’t realize …. you don’t have to be in the park for the 1pm ‘drop’. As long as you’ve swiped into the park, you can be anywhere on the planet. Similar to the 7am drop.

Disney fans that are complaining about this are the most ethnocentric people on earth. The Genie is for clueless GP which by the way is 10's of thousands of people every day at WDW. If you don't need the Disney Genie don't use it, not everything revolves around you.

While I also don't like paid queue skip systems (or any queue skip system at all) the reality of the situation is that it was inevitable and every other theme park company does it. If it bothers you that much vote with your wallet and don't go. There are lots of things that I like that I don't buy because I think its overpriced so I don't buy it, that's how capitalism is supposed to work. Disney fans are going to be the loudest complainers but first in line to buy the Lightning Lanes.

I can see WDW having a packed 2022, but I'm not so sure Disneyland will rebound to 2019 levels (or beyond) next year. While many regular visitors will likely buy into the new Magic Key program, there's a not insignificant chunk that has moved on from Disney and doesn't feel the current offerings are worth the price that is being asked. My guess is that the DLR will likely rebound to about 80% of pre-pandemic attendance and stabilize around there until DisneylandForward happens.

As for the Genie program, I don't think it will be able to deliver a better day than a regular visitor can plan on their own, but I do think it will be able to improve the experience of first time and infrequent visitors. One of the main factors against it is despite what Disney says, it's still going to be programmed in a way that benefits them, and that may conflict with a guest's true desires. For example, the app might suggest lower priority attractions that are closer and/or have shorter waits than those a guest might consider higher priority, which could result in disappointment if they ultimately miss something they consider a must ride. Overall, though, unless the app is a massive failure, it should be able to provide a satisfactory day for casual visitors, which is the main purpose of it.

As for Lightning Lanes and Virtual Queues, I think we need to wait and see on this one before making too many guesses. While it has been stated that virtual queues will remain at attractions that have them (and insiders have hinted all new attractions will open with one and some popular rides might gain one), there's no reason to assume it will be the same boarding group lottery as right now. It could simply run the same as a Fastpass, where you're issued a return window to enter the queue based on when you join the line. Plus, if buying a Lightning Lane first thing in the morning for Rise locks you out of other Lightning Lane access until your reservation time, there might be far less demand to do so right off the bat.

@Mako: Oh no, I have no problems with AP holders. I hope to be one someday. If it weren’t for AP holders sharing their knowledge, it would make for unpleasant visits for the rest of us.

But am I wrong in saying that AP holders (mainly local, in-state visitors) are not going to use Genie+ on many of their visits, and that being true the Lightning Lane will not be as full as the old Fastpass line? And if the FP line isn’t as full, the regular line will go faster?

i love planning stuff. i'm going to the park for the first time in a few years on monday and tuesday with my girlfriend and am really looking forward to it. i can't possibly be bothered by the ~capitalism~ of it any more than i am by, you know, capitalism in general. it's disneyland.

i personally find it a little overwhelming. so much of what i want from a theme park in 2021 is to not be on my phone all day (or at all). i'm not working. i'm not on my computer. i'm away from my stupid screen and the internet for 14 blessed hours. i don't care about the $5 soda or $20 lunch as much as i feel like i'm going to be tethered to my damn iphone all day. i can tell i'm getting Old because i'm getting nostalgic for the paper fastpass tickets that debuted when i was a kid.

@TwoBits, I certainly hope you are correct re. the standby lines being faster. Although if they stay as they are at the moment, I for one will not be complaining.

A lot is going to depend on how much each ride will cost above the $15 you/we have to pay to enter the LL fast pass system. And yes, genie+ is just a glorified, pay as you go, FP+.

As a local AP, who goes on average 2-3 times a week, it’s something that doesn’t interest me. If I can work the system as well as I did the FP+, then maybe once in a while I’ll pay the $15. But if I have to pay an extra $15-20/ride to, let’s say, get on FofP, then that would be a no-no for me. i.e. … tier 1 rides will need to be available via genie+ and not solely via genie+ and then the LL option.

You only have to read the pass holder blogs to realize just how divisive this has all become. Yet people are jumping to all sorts of conclusions without knowing the full story. 90% of my park visits are just me getting my 10K steps per day :), so in answer to your original question …. I don’t see too many AP’s taking up genie+ after the initial curiosity factor has worn off.

The one thing I do think will happen, and this is purely my take on things …. I can see some tier 1 rides at all parks eventually becoming virtual boarding. We already have ROTR at DHS, from October 1st Remy will join that list. What’s to say after a few months trial, Disney isn’t going to add rides like FofP and 7DMT to the same virtual system ??

"Is Disney's Genie Smarter Than Disneyland Fans?"

Kind of a zero based standard there, eh buddy?

The current wait time for DAK Everest is 5 minutes ... On a Saturday.

If the themed entertainment bubble bursts UEU may be value engineered into the most elaborate mini golf course ever imagined.

And from what we are reading right now ROTR is a walk on

But Classic Monsters is gonna be a gate crasher, yo!

I would expect two Lightning Lane upcharge rides per park that will also double as virtual queues to give a hand-fully guests an opportunity at a free ride. I suspect it will be only two since it was announced that is all the upcharge passes a guest could get. I would speculate they would be:

MK: 7DMT and Tron: Lightcycle Run when it opens.
EPCOT: Ratatouille and the Guardians of the Galaxy coaster when it opens.
HS: RotR and Slinky-Dog
AK: FoP and….not sure. Maybe just one there.

If aim correct, Parkhopper will almost definitely have to buy passes for one of these rides in the afternoon. I say almost because RotR boarding groups have been available after 2:00 a couple of days this past week.

WDW is so messed up that each park needs a different system. I think Genie will work well at Hollywood Studios since it’s line up is similar to Universal. But at Epcot, I can’t imagine people using a paid Fast Pass for the Pixar Shorts or paying VIP prices to skip the line for Test Track and Ratatouille.

Had a lot to consider since the announcement. I do not see anyway that this is not an improvement over FP+. I was one of the people that could use the paper FP system, take everybody’s ticket in my group, and my whole family would never wait more than 30 minutes all week. I got the FP+ system down. The problem is that some family members would want to go elsewhere, or sleep in, or it would rain and AK would not be a good park for the day. FP+ was a bad system.

The system at DL worked much better. No pre-planning your vacation. All of that said, I have a number of questions and concerns:

FP+ was on everything. Everything. Even attractions that did not need it, and that extended the wait times significantly for that attraction. I recall when it started seeing a family using it for the Haunted Mansion at 9 in the morning. Completely unnecessary, and that would start the delay going. Since I am on the HM, I regularly compared the wait times for it at WDW and DL with similar capacity or slightly more capacity at DL (to take into account for the extra attractions at DL). Result? Wait times usually significantly longer at WDW, sometimes longer than 90 minutes for a quick loading attraction. Would Genie the ability to not select attractions if the current wait time is less than 15 minutes? That would be optimal. Especially for things like Spaceship Earth, Pirates, etc.

Next is how robust will the suggested plans for the day? This could either be the greatest thing since sliced bread or the worst. We know that the goals for visitors at WDW are highly divergent. Some want meet and greet and princesses, some want parades and fireworks, some want classic Disney attractions, some the newest, etc. Some want a combination. If it can truly send these people on their way, it could lessen overall wait times. This is assuming they get engineers that can take the pathfinding and programming and consider this. I do not think they did this with FP+. Or will it intentional lie to you to send people to different areas to lessen wait times? This could be the area that the ‘expert’ park goers exploit. Like doing the opposite of what it suggests.

As to the paid component: they had to do something. FP+ was unsustainable. Clearly Universal’s system is apples and oranges, because Universal simply does not get the sea or people that Disney does. It is also more expensive unless you stay in one of the three hotels that comp it. It would seem that Disney would need to work out some benefit for resort guests, either allowing guests in all parks an hour early or discounts on the pay as you go system. As to that…

I initially thought it bad, but then I thought with FP+ it was possible that a family would spend $10,000 or more and have somebody’s only goal to ride Avatar or Star Wars only to be thwarted by FP+ or wait times. This system to have a one time pay allows you to experience those attractions and just avoid two ice cream bars or something.

Sorry this is long. I may regret this and think it is awful, but right now I cannot see anything negative other than a higher ticket price when before I had a lot of unhappy campers with the old system.

Ok the fact that Robert’ has to write a many paragraph article on this new system should tell you something - like it’s gotten too complicated for such a low benefit experience. This industry is ripe for a next gen theme park that actually has ground breaking experiences with relatively stress free planning and access. Who wants to vacation somewhere you have to read a 20 page manual to experience tired and old attractions?

Tiptop, one of the biggest complaints about WDW is that it is too complicated and has been for some time. This may be a step in the right direction. Even when it was simpler, there were books with maps that dealt out advice after advice. Maybe this will help. Maybe it won’t. And I think the ‘tired and old attractions’ are every bit as good as the advanced and new ones. Better in many cases.

I do hate that theme parks are tying you to your cell phones, however. I want to go on vacation to forget about those infernal contraptions.

(Stands up and cheers for Disney's decision) I have been waiting for this to become reality for a long long time. I'll pay whatever they ask to skip the lines. I'd rather give up my cash and my things than my time.

I think we may actually find time to visit a Disney park or two in the coming years.

Still cheaper than Universal (paid Express Pass). I have a feeling Disney will work this in as a free perk at some of the premier resorts.

I for one, love this decision. Money grab... maybe. Grab my money while you're at it, just let me skip the lines.

I don't belive the system is smarter than a toaster or a pet performing a trick for it's trainer. Its an algoritym that looks interesting and Will allow new comers to the parks to navigate easier. It Will offer costumers a time saving tool ( in exchange for money ), and Will offer in a hand held device Tons of info and fun facts, hold your reservations close and easily accesible.
It Will make Disney a Lot Richer, too.
It Will hold great atracttions hostage to new and old fans, and Will tell You ( because is programmed to do so ) that the ride You really really want is 90 minutes away ( it may be 30 mins but there is no way to check for real until You step into that regular line ) so You get frustrated and hot and hungry, so You pay $ 60 dollars ( about 4 people in your party ) extra and then clean , rinse, dry and repeat for the next show or ride that the system KNOWS that You want because YOU TOLD SO YOURSELF,. And thats what Disney is no telling You. Its not a crime, but a bit of manipulation. Do not worry your little head with planning a little or read a simple map, who cares about the wonder of Discovery when You can sink your nose into the cell phone? I love innovation and helpful apps. But it's a marketing tool first and foremost.
I know, i know, i'm ranting. Hope our regular experts here figure out the system soon.

“You pay $60 dollars ….. (4 people)”

When are people going to realize it’s not 15 x 4, the $15 is the cost for you to enter the system. And by all accounts you can now pay that ‘entry fee’ at midnight on day-of. Although the chance to book LL reservations happens at 7am for resort guests, and park opening for the rest.

We do not know if there’s going to be a limit/ride of LL’s either ?? If there is, then resort guests will grab all the god ones before the park opening people get chance to even try. That’s why I’m hoping, per FP+, rides like FofP and 7DMT are not only available to paid LL reservations. But then again, we don’t know if Disney will set any limits …. Yet ?

So, yes it’s going to set a party of 4 back $60 to buy into genie+. Then, let’s say you want to ride FofP and Navi river at DAK. Both tier 1’s in the old FP+ system. Give me a number …. what do you guys reckon ?? I’d guess a minimum of $15/ride maybe even $20. Geez, this is Disney, so I wouldn’t be shocked to see $25 !! So let’s be kind to Disney and say $15. So for a party of 4 that’s another $120, giving a total of $180 to ride just 2 attractions. So you’re already up to $45/person, and you are now locked out of the LL system. The rest of the rides will be varying prices, maybe $5 to $15 ??. So it’s going to add up fast.

I much prefer a Universal express pass type system, sure you pay more up front, but you can ride and ride all day …. and it can be the same one over and over again.

Makorider - I agree. The Universal system is so much more simple. One ride per attraction or unlimited. This requires people being on their phones to grab a paid a la carte reservation if they are already in the parks.

I listened to the Disney propaganda video three times, trying to convince people this is great for everyone.

Just give me a one ride per attraction for everything in the park for an obscene amount of money and I will buy it.

Any guesses as to what the E-Ticket purchases may cost? I like to plan my future wastefulness accordingly.

If they have attractions that are ONLY pay as you go, then I will retract my belief that this is a good system. That would be a bad idea. There should still be methods to allow high demand attractions to have other means; i.e. boarding group virtual lines, rope drop, etc. The pay as you go should be priced to a level that few people would use it to avoid over extending the waits and to allow people to always be able to experience them with sacrifice. Nothing like the bungee type or swing attractions at Six Flags. Those are fun, but only few people do it do the the cost. I am sure Disney does not want tons of guest to report, “We would have loved to ride Rise of Resistance, but the extra cost was just too high.” Of course that hotel is absurd, so they might not care. WDW in Orlando needs another gate, but I am sure money is just not there due to current events.

Been following this on several forums and YouTube channels. 99% of the pixie dusters are swearing up and down they are done. Only about on percent are cheerleading this new system.

When have you EVER seen an AI that actually provides better/more accurate information than an experienced person? Yes, the GP that doesn't know squat about Disney Parks might find some help and initially feel good about getting practical advise from Genie, but experienced park goers will still run circles around guests listening to Genie. It's inevitable that experienced guests and APs will develop strategies that run counter to Genie's algorithms, which will almost certainly frustrate those that listen to the AI and find out about all the stuff they missed out on during their visit.

As it was with FP+ (and so many other aspects of our society), we need to rely on the ignorant to be "victimized" by this technology so the cream can rise to the top - survival of the fittest after all. If we don't have lemmings, those of us who seek to take advantage of the systems in place (like going to the right side of a counter service cashier with a 10-person line to their left) will end up in the same line with everyone else. So go ahead, and follow the Genie folks, so when my family and I next visit Disney parks, we'll have plenty of lemmings doing what Disney wants you to do, so we can do what WE WANT more easily.

@NB - The Drones will cry foul at anything and everything Disney does, yet it's all empty threats, because you know every single one of them has set aside $10k and ready to set an alarm to be the first guest in the Halcyon. Every time you read that someone swears to "quit Disney", you invariably read a trip report a year or 2 later about a recent visit to a Disney Park.

Disney is taking the last Bastian of equality and has wholly embraced crony capitalism in public view. All I know is they have priced me out. Even the high tier magic keys don't solve my problem because I may only get two trips in DLR and they would each be 8 to 10 days.

Placing Clint Eastwood outside the gates to tell you to "get off Disney's lawn" after 4 to 6 days doesn't work for me and It may not work for a select group of others.

They are lifting their middle finger to those people that come from out of state and require far more planning and a little more flexibility. Do you see anyone asking for carte blanche?

I don't have an issue with the reservation system. I have an issue on the reservation limits. I don't have an issue with most of the blackout dates, however, you're dropping in too many days that were open before. (And I don't mean holidays or summer) Disneyland has been fair IMO with blackout dates until now.

While I'm not done, It doesn't really matter does it...?. I'm "boxed out" as they say. I am not spending money on something I will not able able to use. You don't buy an airline ticket when you know you can't get to the airport.

@JC …. I agree, the system, to be fair to all, has to have rides like FofP & 7DMT available in the genie+ lineup and not solely in an up-charged LL reservation ‘pool’.

Fortunately ROTR & Remy will still be available via the virtual boarding groups, although I suspect the days of a 1pm group being available beyond 3pm will be over once genie+ arrives.

It’s going to very interesting to see how Disney tier the rides and what up-charge they apply to each tier. Maybe we can get a good idea from the old FP+ tiers ?? At least this time some rides will be left out of the genie+ system completely, so if nothing else that’s an improvement over FP+

@ Russell Meyer you are so right that the problem is too many make it an empty threat. I already contacted my rewards to see if I can swap and use it somewhere else. The answer was YES!. That solved one part of the problem. The second part of the problem is, I have too much saved in GCs. I now have that dilemma, how do I spend what I have saved and earned? Yes, I can sell the gift card. I did that once and had a headache getting paid.

Disney is going to get my money one way or the other. I have looked at alternative like staying at a Deluxe resort for 4/5 nights as a 1 time thing then going to Universal/Seaworld/Gatorland instead. Just enjoy a resort, or go to Hawaii and spend 3 nights there then switch resorts. After that, I have enough rewards to easily pay for another property for a week and my flights would be free. My only cost would be the tickets which I don't have.

Any other ideas you have.. I'm listening..

BTW... I think even with the people hitting the wall and really leaving Disney as a customer won't hurt there bottom line at all otherwise, they would have had a more careful approach. I think paying for access and to bypass people will be so lucrative a venture for them, they can care less for what we as guests think.

Disney is getting roasted - what a PR nightmare - except I did hear that Universal and Seaworld were sending gift baskets of gratitude