The 474 acres of the Sand Lake Road complex are spread across several parcels, but the main parcel, located northeast of the Orange County Convention Center, is about 340 acres. For comparison, Universal Studios Florida occupies 107 acres. That's plenty of room for a major theme park, or even for two parks of modest size.
However, the main parcel of the new land lies nearly four miles away from Universal Orlando's main parking garage. So, ultimately, the story of what Universal does with this new land — if it goes ahead with the purchase — will not begin with the potential themes, rides, and attractions of a third Universal Orlando theme park. The story will begin, instead, with transportation. How will people move between the "old" Universal Orlando and the new?
This isn't a trivial detail to be addresses later in development. It is the core challenge that will determine whether this purchase succeeds or fails for Universal Orlando. If people can't move effortlessly between the various parks of the Universal Orlando Resort, that inconvenience lessens their appeal. An if staying on-site at Universal provides no more logistical advantage for guests than staying off-site at another hotel located in between the properties, Universal's plans to emulate Disney through the introduction of thousands of new hotel rooms will be weakened.
Of course, Universal knows all this. This is no longer the undercapitalized division of a company bouncing from one corporate owner to another, as it was back when Universal originally sold the property that it now looks to buy. Universal knows what it is doing now, and has the resources to do it. But as fans try to figure out what that is Universal will be doing next, it will be helpful to start with the question of transportation. By considering the logistics of how this new property will "fit" with Universal's existing land, fans can understand the physical context that will guide everything Universal does with this expansion.
Let's imagine what the vacation experience looks like at an expanded Universal Orlando Resort. How do you get there? Where do you stay? How do you get around? Almost all visitors arrive at Universal now by driving themselves or being driven there in a paid shuttle, bus, or taxi. Unless Florida decides to actually build that long-planned-and-debated train from the Orlando airport to International Drive, driving (in one form or another) will continue top provide the dominant means of arrival for future Universal Orlando visitors.
But what then? Now, you park your car at Universal and can forget about it until the end of your visit. As Paul Danner described earlier today, Universal's hotels lie within walking distance of the parks, and can be accessed by complimentary water taxis or (in the case of the Cabana Bay) buses. That won't be the case if Universal develops another parcel, four miles away. Either Universal will have to ask its guests to get back in their cars and drive to the other half of the resort, or Universal will need to develop some transportation system to link the two.
Universal's two properties actually would lie closer together than Disney's Magic Kingdom and Epcot. But Disney owns all the land between those two parks, which eliminates any non-Disney distractions that might lure away a family of tourists moving between them. That won't be true for Universal. Now do you understand one of the reasons why Universal might not have wanted the "world's tallest roller coaster" built between these parcels?
And let's not get started on how long it takes anyone to drive four miles anywhere near I-Drive, and that's without another Universal theme park in the mix.
All this gives Universal even more incentive to build and control the transportation between the two properties. Buses might seem the easy solution, but they remain prey for the I-Drive neighborhood's notoriously bad traffic. And, as Paul wrote, buses are boring. Yet thousands of visitors each day at Disney endure those buses because, well, they don't have a choice. Disney picked them up at the airport and bused them (for no additional charge) to their rooms at the Walt Disney World Resort. They don't have a car. If they want to get around, they are dependent upon Disney Transport. And, in many cases, that means a bus.
If Universal wants to keep people out of their cars when traveling between its two properties (and it should, for the reasons above), then Universal can best do this buy making it so that visitors don't have to bring a car to the Universal Orlando Resort. That means either matching Disney's free bus ride from the airport, or one-upping Disney (and the state of Florida) by paying for its own rail route between Universal and the airport.
Given that Universal has looked for tax money to build a pedestrian overpass on its property, it's hard to imagine Universal pouring its own money into a partnership with the state and federal governments to build a rail line across southern Orange County. But that's as easy to imagine as another Minions flick when compared with Universal building that rail line itself. So let's go with the bus plan for now.
With thousands of visitors arriving daily via buses from the airport, instead of driving rental cars, Universal could reduce the demand for parking spaces at the resort, while leaving those carless visitors as stranded on Universal property as Magic Express riders now are on Disney's. That provides Universal with a powerful one-two combination punch of extra space for expansion coupled with extra demand for services, including restaurants, entertainment, and retail.
So an expansion will include much more than another theme park (or two). Yes, we know that Universal wants more hotels. But with more (and more captive) guests, Universal will need to build more resort, spa, and CityWalk-style attractions, too — to feed, entertain, and sell to those visitors around the clock.
The more than Universal can build walkable new developments that do not require the use of cars, buses, or boats to move people between them, the less strain that development will put on its transportation system. So as you think about what Universal will do with its new property, consider that.
But, ultimately, Universal still needs a way to move people those four miles. Could Universal work with the City of Orlando and Orange County to build a rail line down Universal Boulevard? A dedicated rail line, especially if it were an elevated train or monorail, could move more people than a bus system that had to run on congested local streets. But such as system would be wildly expensive. Would Universal trade some of the smaller parcels in its purchase to local governments in exchange for right-of-way, bonds and construction help for a new rail system? Or would Universal opt for the cheaper option of widening Universal Boulevard with dedicated bus lanes, reserved for Universal's buses?
Universal brilliantly leveraged the Harry Potter franchise to encourage visitors to upgrade to Park-to-Park tickets, as that's the only way to ride the Potter-themed Hogwarts Express train that runs between its existing two parks. But with a third park four miles down the road, perhaps Universal won't want to encourage same-day park-to-park visits anymore, as that would just add to the demand for transport between the properties.
Does Universal end up with three ticket options, then: one park per day, park-to-park between Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure but not the third park, and then maybe park-to-park-to-park for all three?
This finally brings us to start thinking about themes and IP for a third Universal Orlando park. What would be distinct enough from Universal's existing parks that fans would want to experience it apart from the other two parks, but closely enough related that fans who want to visit USF and IOA would still want to experience it, and not skip the third park? Again, transportation drives this consideration. (Apologies for the pun.)
Also consider that the park would need to be included within a well-developed complex of hotels, restaurants, and retail, with transportation depots connecting the new development with both the old and the airport. And with any on-site parking being less convenient for people than Universal's on-site transportation network? (Something that Universal Orlando currently does very well, by the way.)
For what it's worth, no one has leaked us any plans... yet. (You know how to find us, Universal insiders!) But I hope that this series of questions will help you to understand better the development process that will soon begin to happen if Universal does proceed with this purchase. By understanding the "why" of what Universal is about to do, we have a much better chance of correctly guessing the "what" of what eventually will happen.
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Discouraging park-hopping and having difficult transport between the parks essentially sets the 2 areas up as competing parks (like DLR and Knott's Berry Farm) rather than a cohesive whole. This means that one of the park areas becomes optional.
I think they would be better off biting the bullet and building a monorail / train now rather than trying to do it later on when the park /hotels etc have been built. Can you imagine what a mess that would be?
1) Tear down current parking areas at City Walk & build third gate
2) Move all off-site parking to Wet & Wild's site & provide shuttle to & from parking
3) Use the 340-acre parcel for new hotels/resorts, restaurants, shopping, entertainment, etc.
I'm sure that there are plenty of reasons why this plan wouldn't work, but it sure would be convenient having three parks a hop, skip, and a jump away from each other!
1. build an elevated rail/monorail system going along Universal Boulevard. By doing this rather than bussing, you would not have to worry about traffic or the many lights on the Boulevard.
2. Build a new large parking garage (similar in size to the current city walk ones) on the new property along with a new theme park. Also if there was a monorail connecting the properties, then people could park in the new parking lot and either go to the new theme park or take the monorail to the new properties.
3. I always forget about the wet & wild property. Anyway, they should use that land to build a new resort and 2nd citywalk but with a different theme. For those people who have visited the current citywalk, they would not be willing to hop on a monorail to another place exactly like citywalk. By having a second citywalk but with a different theme, more people woud be enticed to go there because it is new and different.
Ultimately, even if Universal were to build a monorail system, they probably would also use busses and possibly make seperate bus lanes as well. Universal would do this to maximize the amount of people being moved around to the other properties at the reseort.
Question though? What would Universal do with all those little parcels of land?
With Volcano Bay, the distance between parks and hotels is already going to increase. 1.5 miles from Portofino to Volcano Bay. That's about the same distance as Portofino to Wet n Wild. If I understand the new location correctly, it would only be about 2 miles from Wet n Wild to the new property so not much worse that what is already happening although you are right about traffic congestion outside the Universal bubble.
Although it's probably ten years before anything starts to happen at any future property, it will be interesting to see what happens in 2017/2018. If the rumors are true that Volcano Bay guests will have to park at the main garage and take buses, Universal is already going to have to expand their transportation system beyond Cabana Bay buses. I'm assuming by 2017 we will hear what is happening to the old Wet n Wild.
Any clues how quickly Universal can act on the Colony Capital option?
I'm glad that Universal's expanding, but is really wish it didn't have to be an entirely separate property. Say what you want about Disney's transportation, but at least they've never had to worry about outside influences since they have everything on one property.
The local route could travel from the south convention center to the north convention center routing directly along Universal Blvd or I-drive from the North convention center with a Rail Hub at the Universal property at the 20 or 15.5 acre lot in the map.
From there, dual local and express Universal routes straight up Universal drive to Wet and Wild and on to the existing Universal property. Even more interesting if one direction is down I-Drive and the other direction is up Universal Blvd.
Later, add a route funded by the city from the Airport down the Bee-Line to the hub servicing the convention center, an extension of the Universal express route. The airport is supposed to have ties to the other area rail services in the next few years anyway.
From the city's perspective, significant traffic easing on the I-drive mess with availability of better mass transit. Adds another draw to support the already strong convention business. Local rail stations are sponsored by the attractions that want nearby stops reducing costs to the city. A long term contract with Universal providing the service to all Universal hotel guests from the airport guarantees a base amount of operating funding. Offer can be extended to other resorts and to Conventions at a competitive per guest length of stay/convention price.
From Sea World's perspective, it would need to sponsor adding a route from the hub, if they can afford it. Even if they can't add afford it, they are still much better off.
From Disney's perspective, they still have their guests locked in with bus service only. However, they now are competing with a much more integrated region with 4 theme parks plus other attractions. Pressure is stepped up on the mouse. Possibly, they eventually end up with a route down from the convention center to the mouse.
GG
Universal has, in recent years, shown that they can take the creativity and immersive theming that Disney invented and crank it up to the power of three.
I'm just speculating if they're thinking of cranking it up to the power of 10.
I wonder if Universal is waiting out Sea World to see if they decide to sell. They got Wet N Wild at a rock bottom price and quickly sold off the other parks. Sea World would be the fastest option as they could quickly retheme it and the park is already built and in a prime location right by the convention center and only a few miles from Universal. It would also be a great PR move if Jaws frees the whales.
Crazy how Universal rumors I read as a kid are actually coming true.
Universal is smart. Buses work for Disney because they own as much land as a college town, but Universal is really missing the boat (missing the train?) if they go the bus route.
Taking a bus from the new area to the old, or vice versa, will really put a damper on the guest experience, even if only for 20 minutes.
Though a monorail would be quite expensive, it's a relatively short distance, and to really compete with Disney World, they need to give guests the best experience they can, and however expensive it is now, it's the better bet in the long term.
I really like the idea that was mentioned before from some other site I've never heard of (hehe). Use Wet N Wild as a TTC type place, plus an entertainment complex. This area would connect not only to the new and old resort areas, but eventually could connect to the airport.
Train to Universal's properties, connected by monorail?
Bus to Disney's properties, connected by buses?
Uh. Yeah. No brainer.
Pony up the cash, Comcast.
I agree a monorail is slicker than bus. They could always start with bus and develop monorail as a more long term plan.
The other big question here is whether Universal Orlando has enough demand to support a development of this scale. With everything listed above, this expansion would likely be a $2-3 billion dollar project and I don't think there's enough demand at the moment for Universal to justify spending that amount of money. They could always start smaller and work their way up, but the realist part of me says Universal may buy this land for bargaining power. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any development on this property for 10+ years even if Universal purchases it now.
I could easily see Universal jumping on this if they continue to see increased customer spending like they did with DA.
I agree though about demand. Does Orlando really need another park or does Harry Potter just siphon existing customers from other locations? It will be interesting to see if Volcano Bay and Sapphire Falls turns UO into a 3-day destination. If so, I could see Universal going aggressively after Disney with a new theme park -- "Forget Disney, we have just as many parks and hotels. Spend the whole week with us."
This is way too early to suggest solutions to a development that is yet to be announced and planned. I would assume Universal wants to minimize its risks and not inadvertently create a white elephant if the future development proves to be a failure. A monorail to nowhere? It could happen. Even in Las Vegas, the monorail is little used. I suppose this is due to not being connected to the airport in the south and the few notable casinos at north end of the strip where the monorail ends at SLS (formerly Aladdin casino) has little business. Also, the monorail doesn't have a stop at the high end Wynn casino.
Again, Universal will do what's expedient and invest their money in their theme parks. The off-site guests can find their own way. Maybe the city will add a bus stop. Why not use what's already there?
Though to do this, AJ is absolutely right, both plots will have to be self sufficient from one another to be successful. Both plots will have to be an all encompassing resort with theme parks, hotels, restaurants, parking, and other suitable entertainment and infrastructure to support themselves. The key is to connect the two as seamlessly as possible to create a mega-resort and gain the week long commitment from their guests.
If Universal Orlando finds solutions to their potential transportation issues...look out WDW!
However, for people currently staying a week at Disney and a couple of days at Uni, how much will it take to push those visitors to a 3rd full day at Uni?
Given the monorail in the movie (and how they already themed one park-to-park transportation option as the Hogwarts Express), they could do the same with the monorail and utilize video screen technology to make it into a 'ride' in of itself before you even get to the park. The four mile ride would give ample time to 'ride' through several paddocks of dinosaurs, while keeping visitors from ever paying attention to the actual surroundings being passed through (non Universal property).
Yes, Disney has done some unkosher things in the past, but using political tactics to block development and sue reasonable entrepreneurs from developing IDrive disgust me. If they wanted to control the development, they should have just bought out the property or negotiated privately, not tried to ruthlessly destroy the competition. That would have been ethical. Additionally, they have sought out tax dollars to build out private infrastructure that would exclusively benefit them.
This company has gone from being an ethical competitor and responsible business to a crooked bully in just a few short years. It is sad because I loved the Univerasal Parks and they were my favorite. They lit a fire under Disney when they got complacent. However I cannot support the company any more.
Like I said, I know Disney is not perfect themselves, but at least they are not trying to distoroy the community in thier quest for growth.
Edit: I typed this on a phone so I know there are spelling and grammar mistakes.
I don't know how monorails work during inclement weather, but I do know that cable cars will shut down for thunderstorms and even moderate sized winds. That could pose a problem if they need to move lots of people at any time.
Political tactics can be interpreted a number of ways, so that is a gray area. I heard about a lawsuit on another theme park forum. I was wrong.
Here's my prediction for what will happen if Universal does acquire and develop this property. They'll probably develop a two park resort over a 10 year time period with it's own parking garages and a comparable version of Citywalk. Orlando and the State of Florida will be asked to pony up for infrastructure improvements to the existing roadways since traffic flow will become a nightmare around the property. During the infrastructure improvements, Universal will secure rights to build a private form of mass transit between the two resorts and charge a fee for using it since it will save time and money over moving from one parking garage at one resort to a parking garage at the other resort. (And TH Creative and James Rao will point out the upcharge for the use of the parking garage or the transportation system in every post of theirs for the next ten years. ;))
In the first phase, one park and maybe two hotel resorts will be built. A small and less ambitious CityWalk complex will be built next to the hotels. They will have a small internal bus system that will serve Universal resort guests only. The resort will have a flat parking lot to save costs.
The second phase is an expansion of the new park, the entertainment plaza, and one additional resort. This will happen 8 to 10 years after the first phase. This new phase will make the park about 80% of what we consider to be a full day park.
The third phase is plans for the fourth park, which will open 20 years later. Plus more attractions at the third park.
As for transportation, the same bus system for hotel resort guests and for park to park ticket holders.
Universal has to keep the Harry Potter momentum going, so we'll probably see a 15-18 attraction, 5 land park built over the next 5 years that will most likely include a third Harry Potter area and a rudimentary Citywalk-type of entertainment district. Once that is complete, Universal will add a major ride or modification every year to one of the existing (at that time) parks while they are building the fourth park, fleshing out the Citywalk II development, and completing more hotels and a waterpark in the second resort.
And while all of this is extremely optimistic from the viewpoint of a theme park enthusiast, I don't see them as having much of a choice. Disney is making huge improvements to DHS and AK and inevitably Epcot, and Universal has to offer a game-changing situation to break the lockhold that Disney has on the position of being "The Destination Resort" in Orlando. Building a new resort with 2 new parks, an entertainment district, a waterpark, and multiple new themed hotels offering front of the line access for patrons in a 10-12 year time frame is just the ticket that changes Universal from Avis to Hertz.
Keep in mind that TDS is 176 acres and TDL is 115 acres. With the main parcel being 340 acres, I'd say there is plenty of room to build two awesome parks and a Citywalk type of development on the main parcel plus put the parking garages, waterpark, and hotels on the remaining parcels without much difficulty.
I Respond: That's a bit too optimistic.
With the wheel and polercoaster there will be no problem (I guess) to use fireworks nigtly making a fantasy themed park likely. The park could house Lord of the Rings (Warner is 1 step closer after the ruling to have these rights to sell and Universal and Warner do great with Potter), monster land with the clasic Universal monsters in an old German village setting with Dracula's castle, Frankensteins mansion, etc. Digital dreams, videogame land with Nintendo and Potter spin-off Mythical Beasts could have a space there.
Due to the area the hotels should enclose the park, beeing high enough and in the right theme to take away from surrounding buildings/attractions like Phantasialand in Germany does very effective. A waterway around the resort connects to the new entertainment hub and via that to the lightrail. In 15 years time the fourth park could be ready to expand it again.
Epcot, on the other hand is an abysmal mess, and is a poster child for how to build an expensive park with high operating costs and limited appeal. I fully expect that when Disney is done with the AK and DHS expansions, they will announce a grand plan to totally update Epcot and split it into two parks, so they can enhance revenue.
Anyway, one grand park is totally out of the question. Universal is going to make a multibillion dollar investment in this property if they purchase it, and they will need the revenue from 2 gates to pay off the loans that they are going to have to obtain to build the resort.
Regarding Epcot. It may be a huge waste of space to you, but it still enjoys a higher attendance than any of the Orlando Universal parks. It's weakness is it's lack of attractions and investment. Not its size. If Universal truly wants to compete with Disney, it will have to show that it can create a large theme park. Otherwise it will always be a really good 2nd place.
In all seriousness, though the two parks would be somewhat on the small side, it's all a matter of maximizing the space you have.
I agree with Tim that Universal will need the income from two new gates to help cover the loans, and I have no doubt that they'll be able to make it well worth the price of admission by being efficient in their planning and implementation of the new parks.
I'd like to see one park geared toward the kids, and one toward the adults. Make them distinct entities.
No matter what happens, if this land is in fact purchased by Universal, it'll be interesting to watch unfold over the years.
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