That's the question I address in my newspaper column this week, Why so little love for Marvel at the Disneyland Resort?
Earlier this month at the D23 Expo in Anaheim, Disney did not announce any major new Marvel-themed attractions for the Disneyland Resort, even as it announced new lands based on Star Wars for Disneyland and Walt Disney World and announced a Toy Story Land and detailed new attractions based on Frozen and Avatar for Disney World. Theme Park Insider readers already know that Disney does not hold the rights to use major Marvel characters at the Walt Disney World Resort in Florida, thanks to Marvel's long-standing deal with the Universal Orlando Resort.
But why can't Disney do something with Marvel in California, where it does own the theme park rights to these characters? In my column, I respond that the answer comes down to two issues: space and demographics. Even with a new 5,000-space parking structure coming online in the next few years, Disneyland simply doesn't have the parking capacity to handle the extra crowds that a new Star Wars Land and a Marvel Land would bring. That's the space problem.
So why Star Wars instead of Marvel? That's the demographics. Right now, Star Wars' demo skews older than Marvel's. But with new movies on the way, Disney is betting that Star Wars will extend its appeal to younger visitors, while retaining and even deepening its appeal to older visitors. That would give Star Wars a broader demographic appeal than Marvel. Throw in the fact that Disney can spread the development cost of a new Star Wars Land by building on both coasts, and going with Star Wars becomes the easier choice for Disneyland.
Granted, if Disney had abundant open in space in Anaheim, it probably would go ahead and build both lands, using Marvel to appeal to whatever segment of the market like Marvel but doesn't care for Star Wars, and to lengthen visits from fans of both. But Disney doesn't have that kind of space in Anaheim. It does in Florida, but it doesn't have the rights to use Marvel there. If Marvel is going to expand its theme park presence in Florida, it will happen at Universal Orlando.
And that is why American theme park fans aren't getting a Marvel-themed land at a Disney theme park resort.
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When I was there last spring, at Islands of Adventure, there were stores offering LOTS of merchandise from the Marvel/Disney movies, not to mention that every ride/character/decoration is basically the intellectual property of Disney - And Universal is doing well by all of it, offering excellent rides and theming (oaky, Dr.Doom's Fear-fall wasn't exactly stellar, but otherwise...)
If branding and recognition is truly the key to product success and longevity, then Disney has a fantastic advertising and merchandising machine for one of it's most valuable franchises smack-dab in the middle of its greatest competition.
No one will deny that Tomorrowland needs some love...even currently.
They desperately need to get more of the crowds to DCA to lighten the burden on Disneyland and Star Wars will only make that more difficult.
I'm also wondering about Frozen. I find it hard to believe that nothing will be done for CA.
Another way that Disneyland can increase capacity without needing more parking is to add on-site hotel rooms then start a Disney's Magical Express-style shuttle service from John Wayne and LAX to keep guests in those hotels off area roads and out of parking garages.
I'd look for one or both of those as the next steps at Disneyland beyond what's been announced.
The Marvel meet 'n greets at Innovations always seem to get a nice sized crowd. And (space issues aside), they've done a nice job incorporating the areas of Iron Man, Cap & Thor in Innovations.
I see Marvel being "the Avatar" of DLR.
Its a matter of timing for Star Wars is the first priority. You have to consider the $1 billion is not yet spent for the first 30 years and another $500 million must be allocated in another 15 years.
Can the first $1 billion cover Marvel? Or they will wait.
Right now Disney doesn't NEED Marvel because they have Star Wars. If they didn't have Star Wars, maybe they'd think harder about a Marvel land, but they don't, so they won't. They run a major risk of alienating fanboys (and all three fangirls that might exist) if their biggest ride in a new Marvel land is an Iron Man motion simulator. Do you really want people running around your park saying, "Go to Universal Orlando! It's way better!"
The saddest thing about this is that DCA needs Star Wars more than Disneyland does. Yes, DL needs more attractions to spread out the crowds, but DCA is more in need of a wider demographic. Plus it desperately needs something to get people away from Cars Land and Midway Mania AND it needs more non-flat rides pronto. And it wouldn't hurt Disneyland to get a roller coaster that goes faster than 36mph, which would be much easier to theme to a Marvel character.
They weren't flying height test balloons over the remaining Timon lot for nothing. More than decreasing the amount of guests that show up, Disney still needs to actively spread crowds better between DL and DCA, the way to do that is near-simultaneous Marvel land debuting against Star Wars.
Back in 2009/2010, there was talk of creating a program to incentivize Disneyland Resort guests to use Ontario (ONT) airport. A number of different ideas were mentioned, including air fare rebates, early admission, and hotel discounts. The goal was to shift passengers to the under-utilized airport.
Ultimately, nothing happened. I never heard exactly why the idea was abandoned. Given the poor management of ONT, I'd bet that LAWA (Los Angeles World Airports - owner/manager of ONT) was most to blame.
Fortunately, a deal was just announced to return ONT to local control. Hopefully, the new leadership will attempt to revive the idea of a permanent transportation link between the airport and the Disneyland Resort.
Now it makes a lot of sense because Star Wars Land (complete with Star Tours 2 or 2.5) and Pandora (Avatar) can both be the anchors for the second gate at HKDL, which is already under discussion between Disney and HK govt. Add Cars Land, more Marvel attractions and a few original attractions and you have a good second gate to open with.
With that in mind, it would cater to out of town visitors, while Disneyland skews much heavier toward annual pass holders than Disney World - because Orlando is a heckuva great place to visit, but who wants to actually live there? Hehe. I kid. Sort of.
Anywho, I'm not sure what kind of mass transit system they could implement to cater to the locals who dominate the attendance numbers, and that's the key. Having Star Wars and Marvel in addition to Cars Land, and everything else that comes with the two parks would drive attendance to capacity pretty much all year...drive...I see what I did there.
It's a really tricky situation they're in, but thus far, the success they've had cannot be understated and they deserve much praise.
In closing, I'm disappointed that they're doing Star Wars Land on both coasts. Joe Joe Banks in Pittsburgh is hardly going to have a reason to vacation at DLR, and Jody Juan Kinardi from Phoenix will not likely set foot in WDW.
I really feel like ponying up for Marvel Land would be a better option all around, because Gene Gray needs a place to go too!
Hey, a lot of thought went into the Star Wars and Marvel fictional person names. ;)
It does look like Disney won't give us anything new that's unique to DLR for a while. I thought they wanted to make it more of a destination resort?
"In closing, I'm disappointed that they're doing Star Wars Land on both coasts"
Huh? Lame. Who goes just for Star Wars? Do you avoid one park because of a duplicate attraction?
"Why many Orange County riders got off the bus"
When we hear news about additional parking expansions, that's when we are clear to start hearing credible news about a Marvel Land expansion.
Parking or Mass Transit? Your first post said mass transit will solve the problem of finding space to build parking. It seems like Disney has plenty of empty lots. They just need to commit to building it.
One more 10K structure at Mickey and Friends.
A 5k structure at north of Downtown Disney.
A 5k structure at south of Downtown Disney.
Two 5K structures off Manchester and Disney Way.
A 10k structure at the third park lot.
And the transit system is too random and small to get too many locals out of their cars. Disney needs to open the friggin' purse strings and build a REAL parking lot. Disney is so short-sighted when it comes to things that aren't cheap - except for those stupid Magic Bands!
In Melbourne we have our sports precinct with a 100k stadium (regularly filled to capacity), a 40k stadium, the Tennis Centre (hosts the Australian Open), a cycling velodrome (which like the Tennis centre is a multi purpose stadiums used for concerts etc) as well as other assorted grounds. Parking is limited, but is is serviced by a train station and trams.
This area can move 140k+ people in or out within an hour, and most people use public transport due to the congestion and issues with parking Admittedly Melbourne's public transport system is far superior to LAs (almost non-existen), but if the infrastructure is there, it would be used and people who normally drive everywhere are happy to do so.
The difficulty is in convincing a car dependant population of the benefits of investing in mass (public) transport.
A transit system in Los Angeles county is more realistic, but again, it serves the commuter market and not tourism as the service slows down at dusk and is largely unsafe to use at night. Right now, Metro rail is full speed in construction. Good luck with that. However, transportation to Disneyland is likely by car for 99% of guests.
Of course, public transportation in Hong Kong is amazing, and the park is a stone's throw from the airport out on Lantau Island, so it's extremely convenient to fly in, get on the Disneyland Express line, and you've arrived within a few minutes.. It's super convenient, but I know comparing a compact city like Hong Kong to the urban sprawl of Los Angeles is like comparing a California raisin to a Mandarin orange. (hehe)
I'm not going to get into a back and forth here. But Anon does make me curious about something.
Let's say they build all of these parking structures, adding 35,000 spaces. Okay. Now the parking issue has been resolved, and they can build a full-scale Marvel Land - that's great!
And then the last firework explodes in the sky at the end of the night, and EVERYONE heads to their cars at the same time.
Would that cause any potential problems with actually leaving the resort at the end of the night? Are the surrounding roads and infrastructure going to support THAT many cars trying to leave all at the same time?
I'm very curious as to how this whole issue will be dealt with after the new garage is built, and Star Wars Land is built.
Perhaps they would consider reducing capacity or making additional changes to the blockout dates.
The parks will have staggered evening shows and park closures. They don't need to reduce capacity or add block out dates, even with a third park or Marvel land, as attendance can be spread out. I think Disney has largely worked out the problem at Disney World.
Anaheim Stadium parking lot after an Angels game takes a while to exit out, but is quite efficient since the roads are blocked off and there are traffic cops doing their jobs. Certainly, it can take 30 minutes to get on the road. Disneyland doesn't quite have that problem. If you last till 12 midnight closing, you still have another hour to shop on Main Street. You must wait for the tram. Then inch out of the parking lot. California Adventure may close at 11pm. Fun times. People aren't leaving at the same time.
If I were Anaheim, I'd force Disney's hand. "Build a BIG garage next to the current one, and we'll build you a Northbound offramp! Build one in that tiny area and we buildin' you nuthin!"
They should instead create a third gate for Star Wars and Marvell.
The fact that Disney is building a Marvel attraction (albeit at an overseas park) says very clearly that they ARE paying attention to the Marvel fanbase and what it can bring to the theme parks. Consider Hong Kong's Iron Man Experience as a test drive, if you will, of what they may already have on the drawing board for Anaheim. And so what if they can't have a Marvel presence in Florida? It just makes the Marvel presence at Disneyland that much more unique.
Well.. that was just a reflexion seen from the corporation as corporation, and away from customer dreams and/or nightmares. Disney co. does NOT care about those... :-)
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