Yesterday, in the most heated voting of the tournament, Universal Studios Florida's Men in Black Alien Attack eliminated Disneyland's Indiana Jones Adventure. In another tight battle, Soarin' Over California from Disney's California Adventure held off SheiKra from Busch Gardens Africa. Cedar Point's Millennium Force and Expedition Everest from Disney's Animal Kingdom also advanced.
Today, top seed Twilight Zone Tower of Terror from Disney's Hollywood Studios tries to take another step toward defending its title, against Cedar Point's Maverick. [Update: That poll's down for a bit while we deal with some obvious vote-stuffing issues.] [Update 2: It's back up now. See comments below, or this post.]
While we welcome voters from other websites, we ask you to take a look at the comments below before casting your votes. Thoughtful votes help make this a better tournament.
The last remaining Cedar Fair coasters, not from Cedar Point, square off as Kings Island's The Beast takes on Knott's Berry Farm's Xcelerator.
Next up, it's an all-Universal Orlando battle, with Revenge of the Mummy going against Dueling Dragons – Ice.
And we wrap up the day with what promises to be another heated battle, this time between beloved Disney movie franchises. It's Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean versus Hollywood Studios' Toy Story Midway Mania.
To the comments!
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Tower of Terror is a fun ride, but in reality, no different than a glorified drop tower. The theming is good, but the ride is way too short.
From the launched lift, 95 degree drop, the second launch, and inversions, Maverick is the superior ride.
"Let me see ya just bounce with me,
just bounce with me,
just bounce with me,
Come on ...
Let me see ya just slide with me,
just slide with me,,
just slide with me,
Let me see ya take a walk with me,
just walk with me,
just walk with me.
Now make your neck work ... and FREEZE!
Here, come the Men In Black .... Galaxy Defenders!
Anyway, today is pretty easy:
Tower of Terror - If you are a fan of themed, narrative attractions, you have no choice but to support what may be the best example of the genre in the world today. Plus you owe it to Rod Serling's memory to vote for The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. I am sure the Maverick is great, but as it is not even the greatest coaster in its own park (Millennium Force still holds that honor), it does not deserve a win today.
Da Beast - The longest wooden coaster in the world should not lose to a short, one trick pony like Xcelerator.
The Mummy - There is no debate, the Mummy is the superior attraction. It may not be a better coaster, but it is a better experience. ICE, without FIRE, should not have made it out of the first round.
Pirates - Perhaps the best theme park attraction of all time should never lose to a video game disguised as a ride. Throw in lunch at the Blue Bayou and a Monte Cristo sandwich (turkey, ham, and swiss cheese in a battered egg bread, lightly fried to a golden brown), and you have a theme park event without peer. For those who have not ridden the Disneyland version of PIRATES, trust me...it is an AMAZING experience. Pardon the pun, but it blows the WDW version out of the water.
ALT-TABBING back to work now. Have fun!
Really? A shooter game over one of the best dark rides?
WHY????
I like them both anyway! Tower of Terror is theming and thrill at its finest!
And I'm still humming the MIB song thanks to TH... "send me no forget-me-nots" - oh...wait...that's the song that Mr. Smith ripped off... but GO MIB!!!!
Maverick - perfection. Yes, it's not an immersed theme and there are many arguments for theme AND thrills. TOT is awesome and I ride it multiple times during my visits to Disney. This one came down to my "if both rides were in the same park, which attraction would I ride more often?" test. Folks - it's Maverick. I'm bringing TOT down! Go Cedar Point!!
I'm glad to see early voters understand the power of the Beast. Simply an AWESOME and hair raising experience. Love Xcelerator, but Beast is my 2nd favorite woodie (RIP Thunderhead...).
Now - let's reincorporate the theme argument with the thrills. I love the Dragons, but get bored with it after about five rides. Revenge of the Mummy thrills me every single time and I'll often ride it 10x a day per visit. It's themed well, has a thrilling (although short) roller coaster element that lifts me from my seat every time. Even the employees continue their hilarious "evil look" in the loading area. Plus, you've got to love the slight butterflies you get when you push backward only 20 feet. I WANT MY MUMMY!!
I think almost everyone would agree on this site that Pirates is an "attraction" (to use Disney terms) that has really never been duplicated. Yes, Toy Story is amazing. But sometimes the classic remains the tried and true winner for all-encompassing thrills and themeing. I'm surprised Pirates is already behind as to me, it is one of the best overall attractions ever constructed.
[and James - I kept my promise and attempted to vote out Disco Yeti. Alas, the Disney voters are out in droves...]
LOL @ TH! That was hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!
And don't worry James, the Yeti's day of FAIL is appointed and on its way! :)
Beast rules the woodies! Although Voyager at Holiday World was amazing and I look forward to the chance to experience it again.
One of the Dragons vs Mummy is tough. I love both rides for different reasons. Theming is great in both. I guess I'll take Mummy for it's loading area, intro to the Mummy area, and ending.
I hear you guys about Maverick. I was torn but went with HM. It's an icon at DHS and stands above the other attractions. Maverick gets lost in the jumble of steel at CP. Still a great ride though, don't get me wrong.
Pirates, nuff said.
Speaking of dancing!
"Let me see ya just bounce with me,
just bounce with me,
just bounce with me,
Come on ...
Let me see ya just slide with me,
just slide with me,,
just slide with me,
Let me see ya take a walk with me,
just walk with me,
just walk with me.
Now make your neck work ... and FREEZE!
Here, come the Men In Black .... Galaxy Defenders!
And where are the Disney fans? Have they not woken up yet? It's still early in the voting but how can Maverick be beating ToT by so much? I'm thinking there's a lot of Spidey fans out there looking for revenge and just voting against ToT.
The voting is nuts this year. I'm very surprised to see ICE over Mummy right now. Ice is the weaker of the two DD in my opinion and Mummy is a strong strong Coaster/darkride.
Try and remember to vote with year heart, don't be biased.
(Chuckle)
Perhaps from the web side there is gaming and it can be seen, a shame if that's true, but from looking at the websites there is a big push to get Maverick fans voting - and that's not gaming just participation - right?
Vote Beast - 30th year anniversary!!!
Here's the deal, the Cedar Point website is linking to today's vote, and encouraging people to vote for Maverick. Upon further review... that's fair game.
Disney fans, if you want Tower of Terror to advance, you'd best be getting as many Disney fan sites to link to the poll to counter Cedar Point's efforts.
Same goes for other votes down the line.
In case you are wondering, the link is here.
I rescind my previous comment. Kudos to Cedar Fair for getting involved. Almost makes me want to change my vote!
When the poll opens back up, Maverick will get my vote. Lots of elements, a nice queue with some theme, and just plain fun. Tower of Terror is one of the better Disney attractions. What's is nice is that they can change the drop sequence. They did a good job here..it's a great immersive ride....the first couple of times you ride it. The story is interesting, and you are completely engrossed in the ride. After that first couple of rides, it becomes the world's best drop tower. There's a common saying among producers and record label people when working with new talent. It goes like this..."Don't bore us, get to the chorus". Maverick is nonstop fun and excitement from beginning to end, while waiting in a long line and sitting through the same movie and the same effects again and again to get the payoff at the end of TOT becomes work.
The Beast gets the vote, hands down over Xcelerator. This year marks 30 years of The Beast...it's never has gotten old, never will. The helix at the end of the ride alone wins out over Xcelerator.
The Mummy wins out over Ice. I stand by my opinion that Dueling Dragons is not even a top 5 inverted coaster, and is in this tournament because it resides in Universal Studios. DD is a capable B&M coaster, but so are a few others that didn't make the cut.
The last one is tough for me. Toy Story is a more interactive attraction, Pirates is highly nostalgic and has stood the test of time. I went with Pirates...I guess when it comes down to it, Toy Story is good, but I can play video games at home.
Go Maverick....I can see the micebrain scrambling now
As for the other rides, I don't know what they are like since I haven't ever been to any of those parks. Darien Lake and CP are the only two I've been to (I know it is a shame) unless you count Sea Breeze in Rochester to be an amusement park with its measely two roller coasters.
For whatever my opinion is worth, Theme Park Insider is the BEST site related to the industry. And even if some disagree, it can't be denied that it is a hub of news and information related to parks and attractions..Certainly the major players (Disney, Sea World and Universal) should keep an eye on what is going on at the site -- ESPECIALLY DURING THE ANNUAL TOURNAMENT.
And fair warning to Cedar Point, paraphrasing that Japanese general after Pearl Harbor: "You may have just awoken, a sleeping giant ... or two."
The poll was excellant, and maverick is a excellant coaster, but if you are going to have companies link to the poll. it makes the poll of little use IMHO.
(Having fun with my fellow Ohioans who route for osu)
By the way Brian to help break the mold of Cedar Point fans so to speak...I'm married, 28 with 3 kids, all from the same mother, my lovely wife of 8 years this year. I do drink beer, import beer that is...out of a frosty mug, or sometimes out of the bottle if the mood strikes me. If it makes you feel better though, I like wine as well. I bleed scarlet and gray, but have never hit the beer bong.
This is a democratic, opinion based poll in which Cedar Point rides are participating, and I don't think that Disney fans, or some on this site, have a clue as to the size and fierce loyalty of Cedar Point's fanbase. People love Cedar Point and it's rides, just as people love Disney and their rides, and just because the ride isn't a superthemed storyteller doesn't mean it isn't popular. This is a wakeup call to those who think the industry doesn't really exist outside of Florida and California.
Go Bucks
Mummy rules! Or it should!
Went for Pirates instead of TSMM - brilliant ride overall and also for the nostalgic value. I agree that DL's version is superior to WDW but neither can compete with the one in Paris. Toy Story is an example of a new ride that shows what Disney can still do when they put their mind to it - be happy if they keep to that standard!
Mummy also got my vote because as already stated Ice needs Fire to be as good as it is.
As for the biggy, I went with ToT because it is an attraction that has something for everybody - theme and a story alongside some serious thrills!
Be good to see all of the big companies advertise this poll just like Cedar Fair has done:
'WHAT WILL YOU CELEBRATE TODAY?... TPI BEST RIDE IN AMERICA TOURNAMENT OF COURSE!'
Oh and Robert, I used to be a member on this but can't remember my log in. I requested another one but no word yet - looks like you just don't want a Scotsman here!
Congratulations TH, on a well-fought and hard won victory.
Wrong as it may be.:)
At least we can agree that ICE has no business losing to the Mummy.
Maverick is a very good coaster in a park with some tremendous coasters. It can not compete with the best drop tower in the world. Nevertheless, it seems irrelevant as the coaster-heads seem to be out in force to bring down anything with boring themes or detail.
The lack of well-rounded theme park fans is now hurting the quality themed rides. I suppose all is fair considering the sacrilege that was performed to Dollywood, who is the real victim here.
The Disney fans have been extremely pacifistic this year. We are barely hearing from them in the comments. I suppose the stereotypes are true. The Disney fans are meek people who live in a Fantasyland while coaster fans are aggressive people who have ADD. It is all sad. There are tremendous rides of both ilk and everyone should visit as many different parks as possible and appreciate the best of both worlds. Okay, diatribe over.
At any rate, I find all the comments completely hilarious. It's really not going to ruin my vacation or my fun however this tournament turns out. Hopefully the more people that turn out will generate some interest in actually attending some of these parks. I don't protest to be a Disney, Universal or Cedar Point nut... I just like taking vacations to theme/amusement parks and having fun. As I've stated before, way out here in Washington State, we have NOTHING. Our plan is to hit up Cedar Point at some point in the future. Hearing all the people voting and defending this park, on top of the research I've done, makes me even more excited to vacation at this park one day.
Woo Hoo!
Raul, you make a good point as well. Previously this contest was too Disney biased, now it has gone way over to the other side. We need a happy medium....but, at least we know one company (Cedar Fair) pays attention to this website.
Therefore...
CEDAR FAIR MGMT: please keep the love flowing toward my home park, Worlds of Fun. We need more coasters, and that is what you are good at! Send more coasters to Kansas City!!!
Ice v The Mummy would be Mummy. Ice and fire are great as a pair, but on their own I don't think I would rate them so highly. The mummy is fab all that fire and all the effects. OK so its not the best roller coaster but the atmosphere, the effects and the brilliant ending make up for it.
The other rides weren't so close.
Beast and Xcel. There is a reason it's called the beast. The way it interacts with its enviroment make it a classic.
Mummy and Ice. The ride of the Mummy itself is very dissapointing. The theming doesn't add much of any fear or fun factor.
Pirates and Toy Story. Really? Pirates is a Disney classic...
I am a well rounded theme park fan, who prefers roller coasters. I appreciate themed rides and have voted for some of them in this tournament, but the fact that I don't prefer them doesn't mean that I or anyone else has a learning disability. Disney fans have enjoyed expressing their opinion on this site with little or no opposition for a long time. This tournament has brought in a number of people who disagree with that opinion, and that's really not a bad thing.
I totally agree that people should experience as many parks as possible. They all have something different to offer, but that's just the thing. They aren't necessarily better, just different, and people have and are entitled to, their own opinions. Let's keep the fight clean eh?
For anyone else, Maverick rules.
It's great to see a park like Cedar Point throw around its weight once in a while like this. We here so much from Disney and Universal but sometimes forget about the Giant from the north. Yes it's an amusement park not a Theme park, but what it delivers in thrills far out weights the lack of themeing.
I do have a bad feeling about what has happened today with Cedar Pont linking its site to this tourney. We all know if the Disney fans decide to do the same consider this thing over. There are countless Disney sites with people gushing about their love for the mouse, if they get wind of their rides losing we are all in trouble for seeing an unbiased tourney.
This is hilarious! I'm pissed that Tower is losing, but good for CP for recognizing the site.
AS IF the #1 seed is losing to some CP coaster! Hilarious. There goes my 3rd final four pick. I only have Spidey left if Tower loses.
What worries me is that the Disney/Uni fans will chime in and vote simply out of disdain for certain losses and an undeserving ride (like Soarin' or Dueling Dragons: Ice) will win.
My votes:
Tower over Maverick (guess it doesn't matter, though!)
Beast over Xcelerator
Mummy over Ice (both really aren't that fantastic, but Mummy takes it)
Pirates over Midway
The Tower of Terror isn't an indoor drop tower as some have been saying, firstly the drops aren't freefall as they are pushed faster than gravity using a very unique and technologically advanced ride system.
C'mon Disney Fans, time to show your faces!
Also, starting to see a lot of new names show up...members since March 27, 2009. Cool. Welcome to the site, folks!
On a side note, I think our quiet, little corner of the world may have just blown up into something none of us ever imagined....
Maverick is a great coaster that is great for everyone in the family. Cedar Point, along with Maverick, don't have any of the 'fluff' that the theme parks contain, just fun!
I now have no idea what the final four will look like.
Note: the height requirement on Maverick is 52"...in my family of 5, two would be left out. Maverick is not what I would consider a whole-family attraction.
Another note: when it comes to choosing between two excellent attractions, sometimes the fun is in the debate. Sadly, I fear this debate is turning into a Cedar Point versus Disney discussion, which is just too bad. Yesterday was a lot more fun. I don't want to do the whole Disney/Cedar Point debate...again.
I like Cedar Point, I like Maverick, but you'll see a lot of attractions in coming years of the same quality as Maverick. On the other hand not many themed attractions are even half as good as Tower and I expect that to be the case for a number of years to come.
My original prediction for the final four was
Tower of Terror
Expedition Everest
Space Mountain
The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman
Looks like we'll be getting a lot more steel in the finals, which certainly isn't a bad thing, even if it is a surprise.
James, this contest (todays at least) is coming down to Cedar Point vs. Disney. Unfortunately it seems that not everyone welcomes a crowd of "dissenters". Frankly, all I've seen are Disney fans complaining and Cedar Point fans either defending themselves or voicing their opinion with the occasional smack talk we all love...at least when it's in our favor right?. The dynamic of the tournament has changed, the voters in the north have finally been properly informed, and I guess we will see how big the Disney fanbase really is.
Congrats again Robert on the big turnout.
It's my 3rd-favorite ride in Cedar Point, after Mean Streak and Millenium Force (I just love wooden coasters). MS is the one I ride again and again, although that is helped by the fact that when I am there, there is no line for MS.
So of course I also recommend The Beast. It's the ride I do over and over when I'm at KI. That and Son of Beast -- although I'm guessing I'm really going to like the new coaster.
Can't say who to vote for in the other two brackets, never ridden any of them.
On a different note, how in the Hell is Ice beating Mummy? You won't find a bigger DD fan than me but even I have to say Mummy is an overall better ride than Ice alone. Ice is turning into the George Mason of this year’s tournament.
I don't feel it is a debate of Dis/CP, but rather theme/amusement. The Mummy/Dragons race is making me wonder too, I don't get it. Maybe the Pirates fans are voting Dragons for an easy win next round?
The next one was actually a difficult choice for me. An excellent woodie over intense acceleration. I went for the woodie...GO BEAST!
The next pick was also difficult, but I took DD-Ice over Mummy. If Mummy wins this round I'll be just as excited though because it is an absolutely awesome ride!
My last pick had to go with Toy Story. I love Pirates, but Toy Story is a BLAST!
The fact that Disney And Universal have not made the same effort as Cedar Point clearly means that a victory by Maverick would be a hollow victory ... at best.
My theory as to why the mouse fans aren't turning out is that Disney and Universal are primarily vacation destinations. On the other hand, Cedar Point is more of a local park (although it has a world wide reputation) and less of a tourist destination and thus has more of a passionate fan-base, people who are willing to take the time and support their park.
And more than 70 comments? Wow!
Note - As a poster to this site for a few years, I must say that I love ALL theme and amusement parks. I'm truly voting for my favorite rides - regardless of the park they're in. I happen to enjoy Maverick more than TOT and Mummy more than Ice - and that's a switch on theme and thrills right there. I love Cedar Point and Disneyworld and Busch Gardens and Universal Orlando and Six Flags Great America AND Dollywood!! (did I win the lottery yet so I can take everyone to Pigeon Forge?)
Now, just imagine TOT, Pirates, Maverick, Toy Story, Dragon:Ice and Mummy all in the same park. I think I just wet myself.
But I probably won't. I like having more folks around the site. I'm not sweating one day of voting affecting the tone of the site. In fact, I've been lining up some interviews and features that I think long-time TPI fans will quite enjoy.
Also, remember, there are no Cedar Point rides in tomorrow's voting. ;-)
I was just reading the thread, and I find it hilarious. In the morning it was, "I'm sure that by 3:00 TOT will be crushing Maverick". and "There is some obvious gaming going on in the TOT/Maverick poll", to "You may have just awoken a sleeping giant", to "Cedar Point fans are agressive people with ADD", to "ITS NOT FAIR!", to "they're using the competition for marketing", to "Disney/Universal doesn't have time...Cedar Point has the day off and nothing better to do", to "they messed up the voting."
Word to Disney/Universal fans, Cedar Point fans will "mess up" the voting for the rest of the tournament. If you want your attraction to win, get out the vote. Quit crying and making excuses, and wake up that sleeping giant of a Disney fanbase.
By the way Cedar Point fans, don't be afraid to participate and vote in all the matchups.
Robert, I expect you will be keeping a close eye on Jake? We don't need a repeat of his last round of vulgarity and rudeness. In fact, you may have already zapped him since his comment seems to be gone. Kudos!
Audra, you are the kind of person we welcome on this site. We appreciate your position and your well thought out comments. Please feel free to hang out with us...we need a few more Cedar Point fans like you to keep the rest of us theme park geeks honest. I hope you stick around after the tournament as part of the TPI Family.
Lastly, the battle appears to be lost, but the war is not over. The Cedar Point community may have made one fatal mistake: they should have taken out Pirates today. Instead, they left a key attraction for the Disney Fanbase base to rally around. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Disney, Universal, and Busch fans, I suggest you do as Derek says and get the word out...we have a war on our hands!
Having said that (and considering the circumstance between 'Tower of Terror' and 'Maverick') I revert back to the post that TPI regular James Rao offered up: "As Marty Sklar, the international ambassador for Walt Disney Imagineering, once said, "We're in the business of telling great stories, and great stories never grow old. In the end, a roller coaster is just a roller coaster."
Robert ought to do what's best for his own interest in the site. He has invested far too much to walk away from any opportunity.
At the same time, 'Maverick's' (ahem) "victory" is, at the very best, weak -- no matter the margin.
I don't know, it just seems like this kind of voting may distort the votes in later rounds.
I'm certainly enjoying the competition though, a good mixture of theme and amusement park fans would be good though, rather than having lots from one side and not many from the others.
CP VOTERS: please scroll through the comments and read DEREK POTTER's first entry today as he is the leader of the CP Fan Club on this site. He wrote: "The Mummy wins out over Ice. I stand by my opinion that Dueling Dragons is not even a top 5 inverted coaster, and is in this tournament because it resides in Universal Studios."
Follow his lead and VOTE FOR THE MUMMY!
The notion that a lot of Cedar Point fans are voting for Maverick to somehow "smite" Disney just isn't true. They are voting for Maverick because they love to ride it...pure and simple. They love their home park, and Maverick happens to be one of the best attractions there. Just as a lot of people love Disney, a lot of people love Cedar Point. I know it's hard for some of you to wrap your mind around it, but I've been saying it for years. People love Cedar Point.
As for me, I'm sure that myself and another member of the site (whose name rhymes with Like J) will each be a little happier knowing that Cedar Point got some love, even if TOT somehow by the grace of God Almighty... removes a victory from it's butt. I raise my glass of Blue Moon (with an orange of course) for a toast to the voice of the masses.
John Stacy, welcome to the site, and thanks for the info. My oldest just hit the magical 54" number....the world is opening up for him now!!
Funny, I don't even know my kids' ages anymore, just their heights: 54", 50", and 44". ;)
There are many fans of TPI that love amusement parks, especially great parks such as Cedar Point, Six Flags Great Adventure, and Knoebels, and the exciting rides they offer. Just because Maverick is beating the pants off of Tower, it doesn't mean that ToT isn't a very acceptable runner-up.
Jeez, I didn't cry sour grapes in the first round when an phenomenal ride like El Toro lost to a overrated pedantic water flume! oops....just did, sorry. ;o)
(j/k...ok, ok...I enjoy the "pedantic water flume" but it is no El Toro)
Everyone just say congrats to the winner, get your votes ready for the next round, and enjoy the experience.
BTW, I have to say thanks to Robert for doing such an outstanding job on another year's contest.
I see some TPI backlash for this ride in the future. Terrible, truly terrible! I tried seeing where CP threw the vote for anybody who went to their website. Is it still up there?
Sorry for sounding sour, but unlike MIB in which it was 1.Close and 2. Quite a debateable pairing. ToT should only lose to a couple of rides and this is not one of them!
Check the comments...Cedar Fair got involved today by putting a link to the tournament on Cedar Point's website. Got a lot of new folks checking us out. Comb you hair, fix your collar, and look sharp...we have some new friends!
I had a super busy day today! Its good to see theme parks care what we think I guess.
Oh man. I'm sorry guys. Jake Rivers didn't make a triumphant return. I'm Jake Rivers!
LOL. No, no - not the original one from the old days who was annoying as hell. I just created a fake profile of Jake today using a different e-mail and decided to upset the apple cart a little bit. I thought it would be a laugh.
I was gonna log in as him and explain myself, but Robert banned my alternative ego! I remember reading sometime last year that Robert hates Caps Lock comments, so I made sure to make my post full of terrible upper-cased grammar. HAHA. Great to see you banned the fake Jake - hopefully that means the real one is up the River without a paddle.
-- Fake Jake (The REAL Joshua Counsil)
... sorry, but I felt I had to do it.
Robert - this is such a blast. Thank you!!!!
Number 100...beat you to it James.
Makes sense though, do you really think Jake would have gotten out of prison so soon? I should have known...
And, Raul....GRRRRRRR......
Yesterday was not my best day.
Disney fans...start getting the word out now, unless you want to see POTC lose to a...shudder...coaster.
Busch Fans, Millennium Force will be going against Sheikra on the 31st, so you also better start mobilizing now (normally I would vote for MF and its 300 foot drop, but after yesterday, I don't know....Busch Fans may have just pulled some support with their unexpected "underdog" role).
No matter what happens, let's see if we can get to 5000 votes, and 200 comments!
Yes - I am a CP Fan. But first, I LIVE in Michigan, in fact in the D (Detroit for those of you south of the border). Yes - I am a UM fan GO BLUE! and no ADD here!
Looks like most of the issues are regarding coaster enthusiasts vs themed rides. Each have their place...but I do prefer coasters...been missing Beast, Flight of Fear, Fire Hawk, Gemini, Maverick, Millenium Force, Magnum, Top Thrill over this long cold winter...now it's time for the Thrill rides to open up!
Please :) continue to abuse my scarlet and gray neighbors in the state south of me... but leave KI and CP out of that abuse! They are the highlights of Ohio!
-Adam
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